Congrats to my favorite Knick ever Patrick Ewing for making it into the hall of fame this year.
Don’t have time for a proper post, but I did want to put up a new poll to ask all the defenders in cyberspace what they think of this trade that appears to be going down this week.
I can honestly say I have no idea what the Knicks will look like come late October. Maybe that’s a good thing, because at this time last year, I thought for sure we’d win 46 games and finally make the playoffs. Just look at what happened. What a disgrace.
You know there are some Knick fans out there that won’t even watch basketball until the Knicks stop sucking so hard. You may know someone like that, I know several Knicks fans that are like that. And because such a large majority of the Knick fans out there feel that way, I’d say anyone that was still watching last year during the fourth consecutive 20-30 win season is in fact a believer.
And unless you’re turning on the game to root against the Knicks (yes, there will be bloggers this season that claim to be Knick fans that are in fact haters now that their beloved president/coach is gone) I’d say you’re still a believer.
Is there any light at the end of this dark tunnel?
Looks like it might take until about 2010 to climb out of it and find out.
{ 34 comments… read them below or add one }
Hell no,we almost made the Clipper deal, there are more deals to be made.Sit back, uses both sets of eyes and ears, and use the third eye.I smell panic at the Garden and that is never good.Sometimes the best move, is no move.No one expects a championship team out of the blocks.What kind of shape is Curry in?If he’s not ready, why not trade him.If he is ready you don’t have to play Z and C together all the time.Point is 2010 is two seasons away so don’t panic.There is a place in the league for Zbo.He can play this game.Darko and Marko will be on a trump steamer back to Euro as soon as their bloated contracts expire.(Who in the hell are the braintrusts who gave them all this money, and for what?)Whoever they are, they probably have a great future in the Dolan org.Memphis is not the only game in town.Be patient, we can start the season with Zack, Curry and Stephdown.Believe in P.T.Barnum, “There’s a sucker born every minute!).It doesn’t have to be us.LGK
Unlike Tman,I say make that deal.I really don’t see the market for Z-bo.He seems to make teams better when he leaves…..like Marbury.If Portland traded their best player (in Z-bo) last year,how did they get so much better?Even with their #1 pick sitting on the bench the whole year.
Z-bo is a shoot first player,he can’t defend either,doesn’t share the ball and he makes 48 million/3 years.
I don’t agree that Darko and Marko are the answers,but with this trade you will GET-OUT faster from their bad contracts,and won’t have to resign them.
Remember,we won 10 more games in 2006-07 than 2007-08 without Zach.
KD, likin’ the new look kid!!! Props!
Sup y’all….
I am completely and totally torn on the Zach trade. Evaluate the player in a vacuum and he is solid. Plus, he plays with effort and intensity on at least one end of the court – and we’ve learned you cannot teach or demand that mental attitude. He’s a baller, as Tman eloquently points out above.
But having Zach on the team is a fairly surefire way to ensure that the 2008-09 Knicks will NOT be a happy, cohesive unit. Zach causes problems every game with his sticky fingers, his crispy-bunion attempts at defense & scowling yappiness at friends, fans & foes alike.
If i were in charge, i’d consider Marbury & Zach a tandem. Either stick with the better talent, or break clean and begin building a new team chemistry, a new dynamic. (i would keep them both, start them both, and hope better deals were coming down the road – time enough to build chemistry later.)
The excellent KnickerBlogger.Net has a great analysis of the financial ramifications of the deal – part of the reason we need space is not for LeBron, but to extend DLee & Nate.
http://www.knickerblogger.net/index.php/2008/09/06/breaking-down-the-memphis-offer-for-zach/
Seems like Walsh is angling to get one of the three young points Memphis has. That changes things. Deal now shapes up to be Zach/Scholar/1st for Darko/Marko/Crittendon/’Toine – but i think Walsh will decide NOT to pull the trigger. Crittendon’s presence – even having to give up a first – changes things for me. I would pull the trigger on that trade, and start a youth movement right off the bat. JC/Craw/Chandler/Lee/Eddy with Duhon, Nate & Jeffries off the bench. Cut James, Marbury, Mardy & keep Ewing.
New alleged details come courtesy of a blog i had not heard of before:
http://www.theknicksblog.com/2008/09/08/league-source-z-bo-deal-hinging-on-first-round-pick/
i cannot find it now (sorry, uncited author!) but there was a great line in the Memphis analysis that basically said this deal would be the inverse of an Isiah trade in that Walsh would come out on the short end of the stick talent-wise, but make the team better off in terms of wins & losses, whereas Isiah ALWAYS got more talent than he gave, yet somehow we just kept getting worse.
i’m out like Chuck Liddell…………..
I like what you moved around the furniture, bro. Nice job.
Trade works for 2010, but Tman is right: the Clipper deal was better. I don’t see many teams wanting that contract though.
BTW, I just read the previous post and I disagree with the linked article regarding Ewing Jr.’s athletic ability. That dunk was sick. EJ has ability, but he is #3 on the depth chart at SF. He doesn’t have the size for PF, doesn’t have the ball handling for SG. What he does possess is the combination of Gallinaro/Chandler: good perimeter defense, and very good court awareness (passing skills); in other words, a more polished Balkman.
I realize that I want to be treated like the woman at the club; lie to me, tell me we have a great team, bring in guys who have shown “star” potential, play with my head. Then I can get excited in September for the upcoming season. But DUHON????? ROBERSON????? Then cut your only true star (Marbury) because he likes to get with the Lewinsky’s??? Please. I don’t think I’m buying League Pass. I’ll read the boxscores, thank you.
Not only is Walsh selling mediocrity, he tells me “I’m going to marry you in 2010.” Get the f*ck out of here. This is New York Bro. Walsh. Step up to the plate and start swinging for the fences NOW.
Good point, Harlem….Memphis is probably the MOST pinched team, financially in the NBA. They’ve been on the market for two years and no viable group has stepped up. i know Atlanta, Charlotte & Milwaukee also have issues – but you’d think squeezing one of these cash-poor squads is the ticket to a brighter future.
See, the thing is this – Z-Bo CAN defend, but it’s almost like he needs his pride tweaked first. At his usual 80% effort level on “D”, sure – he’s toast. But if he gets legitimately PISSED OFF, he can be a serviceable defender.
i think Jerome James’ job this year should be to dig up dirt on opposing bigs 24/7 and then find a way to leak it to Zach’s “crew” (yo man, i heard Dwight Howard said Zach’s momma has a thicker moustache than D’Antoni!)
A mad Z-Bo will “D” up – but how to unlock that passion on a regular basis is anyone’s guess. Maybe we should trade for Ruben Patterson?
Sources say Marko is in NY right now practicing, and Darko told some Serb newspaper it’s 99% likely he’s in NY this year.
We should contact the Hornets to see if Jennero Parko…err Pargo is available. =)
Harlem – it’s one thing to say swing for the fences, it’s another thing to hit a little ball 400 feet. Do you think Walsh DOESN’T want to make a killer trade that’ll galvanize Knicks Knation?
The problem is, you have to get someone else to agree to the trade. Some of the ideas i’ve seen pimped on here (Kyle Lowery for Mardy and a second rounder in 2014! Both teams get better!) would be lovely if they went down, but ALL of our players have SERIOUS flaws. Not so easy to spin this squad into Paul Pierce, Dwight Howard & Chris Paul.
HarleminMD
Still trying to decide if I’m going to blow-off my money on League Pass to watch the New New York Knicks.I want to see the end of the soap opera.Does the ‘guy get the girl’ thing.
I want to see change at MSG.Marbury has had his chance to lead this team,he hasn’t,he can’t.Yes,he is the most talented player we have,but he doesn’t make the players around him better.I’m not sure if I believe the talk that the team doesn’t want him around.However,it seems like after that”Phoenix thing” where the players voted on should Marbury play,the team lost something on that week.
I believed,like most of us bloggers,that the Knicks were going to have a big year in 2007-08.To me, that dream ended that week in Phoenix and the west coast.There was no more effort.Just look at the teams we lost to last year.Philly blew us out twice,once at home.Seattle beat us at MSG too.23 wins are 10 less than the year before.
Addition by subtraction!
We have to do something!
Here is a good reason to make this trade.
Do you guys think that David Lee would start if Zach is moved?
http://www.hoopsvibe.com/nba-blog/apple-of-new-york-s-eye-david-lee-would-benefit-if-zach-randolph-gets-traded-ar48911.html
what’s up PaulNoize and HarleminMD? Good to see you guys on here.
Yeah, it doesn’t look real good for the Knicks right about now. especially when you consider how much stronger most of the east (particularly the Atlantic) has gotten over the summer.
But we’re over the cap, and we don’t have too many pieces that are marketable. Lee, maybe. Zach, maybe. who else would YOU move?
two ways walsh can do it:
play what you have, let the contracts expire and hope we don’t lose any more unprotected lottery picks.
or, move zach for whatever you can get and buyout some of the other players (James, maybe even Malik).
again, who knows what this team is going to be able to do?
KnicksD,
I think the Knicks have to start Lee for the rebounding.Curry is not a great rebounder.We would lose 10 reb/gm if Zach is gone.Maybe Jeffies,Rooster is not ready.
Part 2
Walsh really doesn’t have much to work with.Don’t trade any more draft picks!
If I were GM of another team,
I’d try to trade for(in this order):
Lee
N8
Chandler
Rooster
Duhon(can’t trade,now)
Rose(expiring 7 million contract for cap room)
.
.
.
Crawford
Zach
.
.
.
.
.
Jefferies
Curry
Q
Ewing Jr.
Roberson
.
.
.
Collins
.
.
.
James
Marbury(21 million expiring contract,too many assets to give up for his contract)
…..and by moving Zach now,you get faster expiring contracts,while you play what you have.I would listen to offers for Lee,N8 and Jamal.Would only trade them for a great player.
First round picks involved in the proposed trade:
http://www.theknicksblog.com/
Knicks not in a hurry to deal:
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=3575539
KD –
Good to be here bruh!! =)
This deal started out good but i think we’re at the point now where both sides started trying to squeeze more value out, and it is probably dead.
We cannot be this bad and give up first rounders, they could turn into lottery picks and you just cannot give those away. i’d rather open this season with Steph/Jamal/Q/Zach/Eddy again!
In my mind, if we keep Zach, then let’s keep Steph. Play the talent card and hope the new 7seconds focus will provide enough shots to keep everyone happy. =)
Offers for both may trickle in as the season wears on, and may well improve.
If we can dump Zach without losing a pick, then let’s do it and break clean by cutting Steph & Jerome. Start Chandler, Nate & Lee and let’s see if our youngsters can build some chemistry playing together 30+ minutes a night.
Hey KD, without the “if he’s healthy” line, who’s ahead on your depth chart: Q or Jeffries?
Haha Henry Abbott links an amusing article where Starbury meets an atheist sportswriter – the first atheist Steph has ever met!
Their conversation is a wonderful trainwreck and is part of the reason why i still (still? still!) cannot quite cut the cord emotionally from Marbury-as-a-Knick:
http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/0-34-40/Negotiating-Atheism-with-Starbury.html
New Nets start early on tall task
BY JULIAN GARCIA
DAILY NEWS SPORTS WRITER
“But Lawrence Frank was most excited about the attendance at a voluntary workout held at the team’s training facility in East Rutherford. Seventeen players were on hand, with only Eduardo Najera and Stromile Swift – both of whom had valid excuses – missing.
Vince Carter and Devin Harris both were there, setting good examples for the team’s many young players, including draft picks Brook Lopez, Ryan Anderson and Chris Douglas-Roberts. Several non-roster invitees were there too, including Bronx product Julius Hodge.
“You like to see that,” Frank said. “To have 17 guys in the gym is good on Sept. 9.”
Coach Mike, what’s up with our guys?
Giving up your future #1, protected or not,is a betrayal of our, Knick org and fans, future.We’ve been down that road and that’s part of why were where we are now.DON’T DO IT!!!!
If you can’t trade a player for an equal or better player, then you are just one of the herd of GMs who play musical chairs in this business.That’s not why you’re in the Apple.This is your rue test.Don’t panic, it’s business, not religion.Remember,if you can make it here….yada yada.Think Yoda, not Dolan!And it seems to me a lot of teams ie. Cavs,Houston need an effective down low scorer, to make a real run.Sure there are problems, but at least be patient and talk to everyone.Then sit back until they realize their needs.Hey wait a minute, dont we need one of those too?Didn’t Artest become a valuable property to the right team?And Zack ain’t even crazy!You know,Coach Mike wasn’t anything until he got 3 time MVP,yeah I know he only got 2,but he deserved 3,Steve Nash.Maybe if we had him Zack and Eddie, pass the chicken please,might look like players.Maybe its not the players, but the lack of an awesome point.Case-n-point, JKidd lit us up with a bunch of spare parts every time NJ came to town and then look at Nash’s effect on a relatively non-mobile Superman in AZ.Maybe they want Zack?We need a real NYC old time point guard like Tiny Archibald or Lenny Wilkens or Dick Maguire or…Wait a minute, we do have one!We have the Coney Island Crisis,About-time- to-Steph-up-if-You-Make-me-ury.Let’s face it, he’s got all the skills but he’s been shooting himself in the feet for a decade.Hey Mike, you want to prove you’re a great coach?Resplain to this greedy demented never-bin streetball wannabee that this is his last shot at the big win in NY.He needs to Let go of his ego, and Let God help him exercise his gifts.Even if you just want to run up and down and just entertain the crowd(Street-ball)you need to resurrect Steph-up.Remember, he should be motivated this year.And Duke basketball is college stuff, Duhon is just okay.Even Coach K is going uptempo to hide his weak frontline.If you can’t get Nash here, now that’s a trade Lebron would love ,resurrect Steph-to my-loo.He’ll love the imagery, resurrection, y’all.And that’s why you get the big bucks.And also, again, don’t trade you’re #1, unless you’re thinking of leaving, so it really won’t matter to you anyway.But riddle me this, What team has tons of talent but is so damned cornfused it can’t whip ez-ass?Remember, to the puzzlemaster go the spoils.
Athlon Sports 2008-09 Preview is out and so are theri predictions which follow:
Atlantic Division
Boston Celtics (playoffs)
Philly 76ers (playoffs)
Toronto Raptures (Playoffs)
New York Knicks (surprise)
New Jersey Nets
Central Division
Detroit Pistons (playoffs)
Cleveland Cavs (playoffs)
Chicago Bulls_it
Milwaukee Bucks
Indiana Pacers
Southeast Division
Orlando Magic (playoffs)
Miami Heat (playoffs)
Washington Bullets (playoffs)
Atlanta Hawks
Charlotte Boobies
Celtics to be Eastern Conference Representatives in the Finals
“Think Yoda, not Dolan.” LOL
No doubt, one player can make a difference, if he is a difference maker. The Knicks look a lot better with my-offense-is-defense-Nash passing to ZBo and Curry.
As I read the multitude of opinions in the blogosphere, my mind changes constantly, but what doesn’t change is the belief that keeping Zbo until February is not so bad. Let’s see what he can do under D’Antoni. I’d rather rely on him than Galinari.
Every move attributed to Walsh leads me to thiking that he does not have a clue, but standing pat, at this point, is not a bad move, especially if you have the plans and ability buy out a couple of contracts. (although I think those buyouts require mutuality).
DLT — I did not ignore your question about what I would do. I actually wrote a response, but decided that I should add a little research to it. Hopefully, I can get to the research after I finish my joint on “Discovering D’Antoni(o).”
Unless something interesting happens, I’m back to stealth mode.
I hope you all are having a blessed night.
A little common sense,
NY Times, “Despite a checkered career, Randolph has shown the ability to average 20 points and 10 rebounds per game. Walsh apparently is determined to get maximum value for him, even if it means passing up chances to dump his contract.
Some team officials are convinced Randolph’s market value WILL IMPOVE this season while playing for a new coach, Mike D’Antoni. It is possible the Knicks will open training camp in three weeks with largely the same roster that went 23-59 last season.
“I’ll be fine with that,” Walsh said. “I want to see a lot of the players play and see what it would take to come together as a team. But that doesn’t mean that I won’t be talking for the next three weeks.”
Amen
Defenders,
I can’t see us giving up a 1st round pick in this deal.Zach for Darko/Marko that’s it!!If they still insist on the pick,then send us Warrick and END OF DISCUSSION!
No…………..
Don’t want to hear it…..
Uh………….
Or,we will go to war with what we got!
That’s just how I feel.
“Please don’t hurt em.”
What up Defenders!
@Harlem, What’s up Dawg! Good to read your post and I’m so delighted to see you still possess that FIRE in your Belly for OUR NY KNICKS…
But alas, You can put Lipstick on this Group of Knicks and they’re still the KNICKS…LOL Oh Harlem, since you’re dating again, would you like to go out with the Force MD’S…LOL Glad to see you’re still engaged my Brudder, and if you want to catch a few games, you can come by the compound…No Invite Required! You and Yours are always welcomed…
@LIVES, Oh Stealthy One, I humble myself to Kiss your Wing…LOL; thanks for the declaration of Blessings you extended to US all…Greatly appreciated and certainly back atcha! I’m back in the saddle on the DL for a minute to exhale a bit. I’ll be back breathing hard in a minute…Be good Mi Amigo and Peace and Blessings to La Familia…
@KD, I love how you have re-decorated the house. I’m feeling these earth tones and shyte…It’s got me feeling all warm and fuzzy.
On the real, I for one, truly appreciate and respect what you do here Homie…It’s your time and your dime, and I just want to say THANKS…We don’t say it enough IMHO…
On the 7th Anniversary of September 11th a.k.a. 9/11, I would like to ask the Defender Family to take a moment to say a Prayer for all of those Families that lost a loved one in the most horrific terrorist attack on American Soil. Also, please include the Families (On Both Sides) who have lost a loved one in the Senseless Iraq War…World Peace should be a Legitimate Goal for All human beings…
Hear our Collective Prayers Oh Lord, and please give ear to our Humble Supplications…
ONE LOVE! GOD BLESS! SPEAK TRUTH TO WISDOM!
Keep it POPPIN!
PaulNoize,
A healthy Q versus a healthy Jeffries in D’antoni’s system at the three i think it is very close but I give the edge to Q. the reason I say very close is not because of jeffries’ play the past two years in new york, but rather how he played for washington in an up-tempo system makes me think he’ll improve his play under mike d’antoni.
I want to say this again: it is an honor bloggin’ with all of the high-quality people above. Thank you for putting it down here when it comes to the Knicks.
Only a few more weeks remain before the preseason begins.
I’ve read it here many times, the big question in Knicks land is:
What kind of shape is Eddy Curry in?
Did he hear what Mike D’Antoni said about him during the vegas summer pro league? If so, did it light a fire in him? Because if it did–and Jamal Crawford his good friend says he doesn’t know if Eddy is in good shape–then we can turn some heads and maybe improve from last year. If Mike D’s dis bother him as little as Scott Skiles’ dis (the ‘jump’ comment or the video game in the basement comment, take your pick) then we are in trouble. Again.
Cooley I should be thanking you for bloggin with knicksdefense. that goes for everybody, thanks.
I’m looking forward to pre-season and bloggin it up here. Have a great weekend everyone.
I missed this article in the Post. Perhaps I should pay more attention to the paper.
KOBE: D’ANTONI CAN FIX KNICKS
By BRIAN COSTELLO
Posted: 4:10 am
August 16, 2008
BEIJING – Mike D’Antoni has noticed a reaction whenever the topic of the Knicks New York Knicks comes up around the U.S. men’s basketball players.
“They usually snicker,” D’Antoni said yesterday. “I don’t like that too much. That ticks me off.”
The perception of the franchise is just one of several things on the list D’Antoni hopes to change.
D’Antoni is here as an assistant under Mike Krzyzewski, and he’s made an impression on the players he’s coaching, many of whom believe he’s the right man to revive the Knicks.
“I think you’ve got a long list of players that want to play for him, I’ll tell you that,” Kobe Bryant told The Post. “He’s just incredibly sharp. He’s a brilliant, brilliant basketball mind. He’s going to bring a system and now you just have to find players to plug into that system.”
Ah, yes, there is that little problem. No matter how brilliant an offensive mind D’Antoni possesses, no matter how amazing the plays he draws up on a grease board are, without a roster of great players it won’t work. But D’Antoni said he believes the Knicks have more talent than people think.
“I’m really surprised at the talent that we have,” he said. “I’m very optimistic that we can surprise a lot of people. I think that the sentiment is that we don’t have a lot of talent, and that’s not true.”
D’Antoni has his family with him here and they have toured the Forbidden City and Tiananmen Square, with the Great Wall on the schedule for next week. He said he’s talked to general manager Donnie Walsh several times even if the 12-hour time difference makes it difficult.
He’s unsure if Walsh will make another deal before training camp opens.
“It’s hard to tell,” he said. “I think every day he’s talking. Whether something happens, it takes two to tango. I don’t know if anything will come up. If it doesn’t, it doesn’t. We’re ready to go to battle with what we have. If something comes up that betters the team, so be it.”
As for Stephon Marbury Stephon Marbury , D’Antoni hasn’t spoken with the point guard since he’s been in China.
“I think he’s in the boat with a lot of other guys,” he said. “I don’t think there’s one boat over here and everybody else is over here. I think everybody is together and at the end of the process we’ll try to make the team better and whoever is left standing will go play.”
2008-09-12 @ 06:09:58 pm
Who will be this season’s breakout player?
With new coach D’Antoni, Knicks’ Lee could become dominant big man
from Sporting News: full story at Breakout year for Lee?
OPINION
By Bethlehem Shoals
updated 2 hours, 38 minutes ago
The 2008-09 NBA season is less than two months away. Depending on how you look at it, that’s either reason to whip out obscure rankings because there’s nothing else to do, or get started on the margins of preseason analysis.
So today, it’s about the breakout players, the guys who will either come out of nowhere and contend for Most Improved Player or who, after a season or two of up-and-down play, solidify their place in the league. In alphabetical order, here’s my top five picks to excel, or maybe even become household names. And no, Andrew Bynum picking up where he left off last winter doesn’t count. Nor does Greg Oden’s rookie year that feels like a sophomore season.
David Lee, New York Knicks
In the days of Isiah, Lee was a ball of energy who could rebound in bunches and, according to his cult of fans, badly needed more minutes to turn hustle play into greatness. Ironically, it was not so unlike Zach Randolph during his first season or two in Portland. But take those same aspirations, and set them into motion at Mike D’Antoni speed, and all of a sudden Lee goes from worker bee extraordinaire to brawny photon particle. In fact, this might be one of the first places we see D’Antoni put his stamp on New York’s rotation.
KD, I like this layout best.
http://www.nysun.com/sports/walsh-showing-patience-in-dismantling-of-knicks/85623/
http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/0-34-63/Turmoil-to-Follow.html
J.J,
Nice article from the N.Y.SUN on Walsh’s patience.He is trying to get the best deal possible for Zach.He does’t need to give up draft picks.But as the article says,he can’t deal a pick till 2012,unless he trades for one.
The right deal is out there,hope he finds it.
He may want to look into this trade with Cleveland.
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/56606-isiah-thomas-is-finally-gone-now-is-the-time-for-knicks-redemption
http://www.starpulse.com/news/index.php/2008/09/14/spike_lee_fears_eastwood_spat_will_cost_
http://blackathlete.net/artman2/publish/The_Sporting_Life_44/Not_The_Apple_Of_Their_Eyes.shtml
please get this trade for zbo to memphis for darko and jaric done . good for knicks as they can then shop collins rose jeffries and get rid of jerome james