The future of the New York Knicks hinges on reversing this trend of getting one dimensional players and instead starting a new trend of getting solid all-around basketball players, so that a sense of team identity and trust can finally be developed between the players.
Often times during the past four years, the Knicks have stock piled prolific scorers who are downright lousy defenders and/or passers, or work-in-project athletes who are devoid of fundamental team basketball skills, or good defenders who everyone knows can’t hit the broad side of a barn no matter how open a shot they are given. We don’t have to name names here.
This phenomenon needs to change now. It all starts with the #6 pick next month, but that’s only the beginning. The Eddy Currys, the Randolphs the Crawfords, the Nate Robinsons, those guys are pretty good at certain things and utterly atrocious at others, so instead of being pluses for the Knicks on both ends of the floor, they’re giving it away on the other end, and it is just that much more difficult to win basketball games for the Knicks, because they never can close out the game by the time 48 minutes have rolled around.
Any time you’re trying to come up with a starting five while trying to compensate for certain players inabilities in said starting five, it makes it too difficult to go out there and do what a competitive team should do: be in a position to win.
Some of it has to do with where you’re picking in the draft the past four years. When you’re picking at #23 every other year, there is a chance your talent is going to have some weaknesses and you only hope they can overcome them on the fly.
Yet there are going to be some guys that aren’t going to improve and it’s on them. Considering “it is not your aptitude that determines your altitude but your attitude,” if, for example, Eddy Curry doesn’t want to play defense, there is a very real chance he never will, at least until his current contract nears its expiration date.
You might think having a well-rounded team like I’ve described above is too ideal and impossible in reality, but how many Knicks currently fit the bill? Jamal Crawford, you say? Not close. Wilson Chandler? Chandler was nice at the very end, but so was Mardy Collins two years ago, and what has happened to him since his injury? We waited all season long to see Chandler get burn, and for what, to see a hobbled Quentin Richardson fail four four months of the season?
We need to start to get guys who can do all the fundamentals of basketball, not just one of them. Quentin could have been one of those guys but his back problems have prevented him from contributing at 100%.
Off topic: It will be really interesting to watch Lakers vs Celtics, if it comes to that. Imagine, the two teams that were involved in two infamously lopsided trades, and they make it all the way to the finals. Shame on you David Stern, for not doing something for the Knicks, but looking the other way when those two Enron deals went down, and then hooking up Chicago with the #1 pick this summer to top it off.
Off topic: You telling me Derek Fisher didn’t foul Brent Barry behind the three point line at the end of the game tonight? Shame on you David Stern, for corrupting the league with your Joey Crawfords and your Tim Donagheys puppets. Obviously you’re very desperate for Lakers-Celtics so you can reminiscence about the glory days of Larry Bird and Magic Johnson, but to what shady ends are you willing to go to get it? They said after the game, “he didn’t sell the foul.” A foul is a foul. Especially when you call sissy flop fouls all season long, for the past five years. So now you gotta have a certain look on your face for a foul to be called? Get these shitty refs out of here. Magic and Bird aside, some basketball fans merely reminiscence to a time when NBA referees didn’t effect the outcome of the game with such blatant bias. You might as well have Nike signing their paychecks instead of the NBA treasury.
Kobe vs KG, here we come! Thank you Mr. Stern!
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It seems as if Joe Dumars has let Flip Saunders go.
Saipan Flip wasn’t the right coach for that job.
The Piston’s have the capacity but not the motivation.
They need a coach who was more take charge but obviously with the ability to reach a veteran squad.
Flip wasn’t that coach.
O&B, your inquisitiveness is headed in the same direction as mine, which is why I wanted to take a deeper look at the possibilities.
I don’t think your stated objectives are mutually exclusive. In fact, they are the ones the organization has stated so that is really what we have to work with. But that makes this whole thing an interesting puzzle, which probably takes us into the February trading deadline with one of last year’s key players sitting on the bench.
I think the first problem is clearing up the stench from last year while not hurting the teams approach to cap flexibility. This means, as one reporter finally quoted an executive, that the Knicks are the one’s with the problem in terms of trading Marbury, not the other teams. In order to trade Marbury, the Knicks can’t take back additional year’s salary and most matching salaries are not expiring contracts. So how do the Knicks get creative and trade this whopping contract for another expiring.
Well, for the novices like us, we look at every team and see who else has a huge expiring contract (I looked two weeks ago for this article and there are a couple of possibilities) and see if anyone is willing to take a trade with some added incentives like a couple of draft picks (6th in 2008 and 2d rounder in 2019, maybe).
Or you could trade Marbury and a draft pick or two for multiple smaller contracts and a couple of draft picks. There are options out there for this trade.
Or you can trade Marbury, other players and a draft pick for a superstar type player you are coveting in 2010. You would speed up the process because you know that LeBron is really not likely to come to New York for a myriad of reasons, unless Stern mandates it. You also know that Wade would be great in D’Antoni’s system, but Wade is an injury waiting to happen so it might night make sense to make such a large investment two years from now. Bosh is not all that. He is a very poor man’s Kevin Garnett. So you might want to make your move sooner rather than later.
As you are alluding too, you try to figure out how you can address those objectives simultaneously.
I think the value in the sixth pick is sweeetening the pie to get rid of Marbury or Zach while picking up an additional draft pick and an additional player, perhaps aguard, for the team. But clearly, the possibilities are endless, only stunted by what we don’t know.
Lives
I agree that the two goals aren’t mutually exclusive. Actually I think they are interrelated in a Phil Jackson, Zen Master, symbiotic sort of way.
Knicks need to improve and add players who can get them in contention.
They need that so that they have a legit shot at attracting the players from the free agent class in 2010.
Actually I read Peaceman’s and Stateman’s back and forth regarding the difficulty of actually landing one of the coveted free agents in 2010.
I can’t say that I disagree with their point of view.
I guesse that is why I’m not alltogether for merely trading away the 6th pick in the draft to get rid of a bad contract. That especially applies to Marbury.
Marbury, will be off the books in a year so I don’t understand the desperation to trade him.
Z-Bo on the other hand has a contract that could put a monkey wrench in the Knick “objective” of getting under the cap by 2010.
But even then, I think he is certainly more tradeable a commidity than Marbury, and certainly he has a better motor, or at least player more motivated than E-City, so his value isn’t as inhibited as the other aforementioned players.
From my perspective I think trading Zach for two or three contracts that for the most part be off the books in 2010 is a better idea.
Even if we don’t get the same quality in return and merely get other teams semi over priced role players it’s preferable to me than trading the 6th overall pick.
I am actually starting to wonder if some bloggers and Knick fans semi-eagerness to trade the pick is now more a combination of the Knicks fans ever repressed rebuild right way ethos combined with their reservations about acquiring players based on potential in the aftermath of the Isiah Thomas regime’s acquisitions of players like Marbury, Thomas, Curry bsed on their potential.
I certainly understand those reservations if that might be in part the case but I think there is a certain distinction to be made between trading rehab projects with large contracts based on potential versus drafting untested products based on potential. Namely with a draft pick, should that draft picks potential failt to material as expected, the dollar cost on the organization is minimal, additionally, if that player is still percieved as young enough to “turn the corner” there certainly might be suitors willing to trade for that player.
At this time if players such as Randolph, Gordon, Mayo are available for us to pick, I know highly unlikely, then I say draft them.
If their not available, then trading down makes more sense.
Hey guys did you check out Alan Hahn’s bit on the player measurements, verticle leap, actual height, wingspan.
Nice article.
Also note that him and Steve Adameck of Knicks Knacks point out that the Knicks are setting up a series of players to assess. None of them are the players noted to be among the top 5-10 players projected to go in the 1rst round of the draft.
O&B
You get rid of Steph now because he has value that can bring you value and still help you achieve your goal of getting under the cap. Certainly, their is a great possibility that he will have an excellent contract year. However, I question how much having him around hurts the development of the team or stifles the development of the players who will be around after Marbury is gone. Clearly, Walsh has bought into whatever Dolan-Mills-Thomas et al have said about Marbury being a problem last year. Walsh sounds like he will give Marbury a short leash if any at all.
If the deal is right, I would not hesitate to use that expiring contract and the sixth pick to sweeten the pot, especially if it is going to get me a late first round pick and a second round pick.
I’m not sure about the theory that bloggers are now gun shy because of the results of the Curry and Marbury trades. I think the best way to obtain Walsh’s stated objectives is to use that sixth pick to create more value even if it means getting to the 2d spot or getting two spots in return.
There are so many options here.
EXIT, THIS WAY OUT PART III
There is a long pause on the tape and then some weird noise that sounds like a hyena snoring. It stops abruptly about ten minutes later.
Jamal: Hello. Mr. Walsh. Do you mind if we talk to you together?
Walsh: Huh, Huh, what?
Jamal: Sorry to wake you Mr. Walsh, but Nate and I would like to talk to you together?
Nate: Yeah, we basically agree on everything and we both have a plane back to Seattle tonight.
Walsh: Oh sure fellas, please come, come and sit.
Jamal: Thanks.
Walsh: Is there anything that you want to tell me, that you think I should know?
Jamal: Not really. Just that you need to know that we want to win and win badly.
Nate: Yeah, we were really surprised that things fell apart so badly, so fast.
Walsh: Well, what happened?
Jamal: Just bad chemistry and selfishness.
Nate: It really started in the off-season when some of us did not show up for the work-outs during the summer league. A couple of our major players were tending to their own business while the Celtics were bonding during the off-season.
Jamal: It really hit the fan on that infamous plane ride.
Walsh:Walsh: What happened?
Nate: It was all about the in-flight movie.
Jamal: And the snacks. That was all really only the pre-text.
Nate: Yeah, but it started when Zeke decided to punish the team for its horrible play by cutting out the snacks. He said no salty peanuts, popcorn or pretzels. Then he heard the in-flight movie was going to be “Fatal Attraction.” Isiah sent word through Curry that he was having it turned off.
Jamal: Steph was starving and he forgot his ipod. He wanted to eat and he was expecting to see the movie. He really liked “Fatal Attraction” for its realism. Curry told him what Zeke said about the movie and nuts and he blew a gasket.
Nate: The plane started rocking and Steph accidently fell towards Zeke.
Jamal: Zeke jumped back and into a Texas Ranger stance like he was about to slap Steph. Steph started calling him all kinds of motherfuckers. He said some crazy stuff like “I’m going to tell everybody the truth. I know your shit stinks. You’ve got tracks on the outside of you drawers, mother. . . I’m not the one that tried to get down with a horse . . . Not my fault that BIG BROWN took your ass for a ride.”
Nate: Yeah, I don’t even know how he knew about Big Brown back then. Anyway, Qrich and Mr. Suhr broke it up, but the team was broken by then. It was too late.
Walsh: All this over “Fatal Attraction,” an in-flight movie and some pretzels?
Jamal: Ironic isn’t it?
Walsh: Wow. So do you have any suggestions on how we improve things?
Jamal:Give me a contract extension.
Nate: Let me start.
Walsh: Whoa, Whoa.
Nate: No, but for real that’s why they pay you the big bucks. We just need a winning atmosphere. I just want to win. I do want you to also get Mr. Breen off my nutsack. He keeps talking about that fight every time he mentions my name. All season long. Can’t he give it a rest?
Jamal: No, I don’t really have any suggestions. I talked to Isiah and he says you guys have some plans to change this atmosphere around fast, so I trust you will do a great job and put us in a position to win.
Walsh: We sure will try.
******************************************************************************
Late that afternoon, after all the players had left. Stephon walked into the little room to chat with Donnie.
Walsh: Mr. Marbury, you can only come in if you promise not to text Marc Berman about this conversation before Friday.
Marbury: What do you mean? I would never do that.
Walsh: Let me rephrase that Mr. Marbury. You can have your exit interview now, if neither you, your family member, friends, confidantes, unnamed confidantes, representatives, lawyers, cousins, associates, girlfriends, or interns call Marc Berman.
Marbury: I wouldn’t do that to you Mr. Walsh. I have great respect for you and I am happy you’re here now. Now we got a real New Yorker in charge. That’s what we need. In fact, I got a gift for you.
(Marbury hands him a rectanglar box)
Walsh: O.k. A pair of gym shoes.
Marbury: Yeah, they’re Starburys. My Signature Special Edition. Sturdy and dependable, like me.
Walsh: Orange and Blue. Nice.
Marbury: Yeah, I want you to know that I want to be a Knick for the next four seasons.
Walsh: I understand that you planned to play in Italy soon.
Marbury: Oh no, no. Berman got it wrong. I said I wanted to play FOR Italians soon, not in Italy necessarily. I’d like to play with someone who speaks Italian or has
Italian in their blood.
Walsh: Like Kobe.
Marbury: That’ll work just fine, especially if he’s a Knick.
. . . .
Walsh: Now, Mr. Marbury, this is your chance to tell me your side of the story. Explain to me what happened to you and Mr. Thomas and why the Knicks had such a terrible season.
Marbury: I’d rather not go negative sir. The truth shall be revealed. God is the final arbiter of truth. Christ is my savior .
Walsh: So you believe that you are going to heaven?
Marbury: When I leave this earth to join souls, I will be in heaven. As Jean Paul-Satre wrote, “Hell is other people.”
Walsh: Very profound Mr. Marbury. Thank you for sharing your thoughts with me.
Marbury: Any time Donnie. Any time.
(Marbury shakes Mr. Walsh’s hand and tries to hug him, but Walsh is too old to get up fast enough to return the embrace. Marbury leaves. A panel in the seamless wall behind Walsh opens up. James Dolan walks out followed by Steve Mills, Isiah Thomas and a Black woman with a Blackberry.)
Walsh: What do you think?
Isiah: Sturdy and dependable my ass. Get that bitch outta here.
Dolan: You mean get that Beoootch outta here.
Mills: Let’s go have some lunch fellas.
Walsh: Yeah, that interview with Malik made me hungry for some black bean soup.
Black Woman with Blackberry: Yeah, me too.
They all laughed on their way out the door.
################
Orange& B
I agree Flip’s appraoch may actually have a little to flippant
for bad boys ….he’s certainly not a bad coach.. but i did not think he did enough in Minny either
Re the marbury, zach discussion you and Lives were having…
My first inkling is Marbury first b/c he was a poison and he’s has soooooooo many chances.
I would be more concerned that he might get pissed and then become problem, more than i’d be worried that we cannot push Eddy( w/ mike d’s gentle prodding) and re-invent zach (free wheeling system)to get a deal for him closer to the deadline
however having said that the fact that we have heard nothing from zach(from either Knicks or his camp)could speak volumes about his (lack of a)future in NYC
but this all hinges on which anchor the new regime wants to place their bets with
I feel they already know who.. but they have to play coy
Lives and SaipanKnickster
Marbury will be off the cap in a year, why give up a pick to accelarate the process. Although I understand that the supposed contract year turnaround some people are discussing has its downside.
I can reasonably foresee how Marbury in this contract year might just play better but will that better play translate into better team play or will it just translate into better individual statistics. Certainly the Knicks don’t need a player who is playing better “selfishly” so.
But in the event that it does happen why not just bar his scowling ass from MSG. He’ll have more to lose that way. Unless what you are thinking is that a trade of Marbury now calls a bluff from a rival GM and the Knicks get something in return, maybe a mid second rounder, b/c that GM thinks that Marbury in his contract year fulfills a need for that particular team.
Honestly, I don’t think any GM will bite on Marbury at this time, he’ll have to show something during the year, and I still think trading the 6th pick to expedite his exit is the wrong idea. If the Knicks are to use the 6th pick to get rid of an albatross contract then use it to get rid of Z-Bo’s contract. That makes more sense to me. And if you can get a late 1st rounder and a second rounder in return, then you do so.
I say play Marbury if his head is right and let him fall off the books at years end w/ Malik. If his head isnt there or he becomes a distraction then send him home ala what Chicago did to Tim Thomas a few years ago. Let him rot at home til the years over. The Knicks can not afford to duplicate the Ewing error. They should stay the course and get ready for 2010.
The only reason to package this pick is to get rid of EC or Zach and get shorter contracts in return w/ a lower or future draft pick.
The NBA rumor has Randolph possibly going to Philly in exchange for 1st rounders.
http://njmg.typepad.com/knickknacks/2008/06/trade-rumor-sea.html#more
Let Marbury prove his value.He’s ready.He’s already backtracked on his”I’m going to Italy” stupidity.Maybe he meant the Feast in Little Italy.He’s got a lot to prove and supposedly he’s in top shape in LA.He can only be replaced if you get someone better and that’s a major trade,it’s possible,but improbable right now.To many “ifs” unless D’Antoni hates his guts.It serves everyone’s purpose to win, so Steph stays and tries to have a great year.Eddie is still the key and if he’s on board we can stand pat until we see the trade we want.If he comes in fat it’s because he wants out of NY.But a trade will be made if only to make the team play a more exciting brand of ball.So do what you got to do Eddie.Lose weight and who knows what good things might happen?That’s why Mike was brought in.He’s not here to walk it up the floor.Anyone in the way of that program will be moved soon enough.Walsh keeps his own counsel.That’s a good thing.I’m sure he knows who he wants with the sixth pick, if he has to use it.Trading down and still getting a rook for the future is what any smart GM who doesn’t have the first pick in a Primo year does.Even the first two guys are not difference makers who can carry a team immediately.If you’re telling me Rose is better than Chris Paul who needed two years to become a star, have another drink.Beasley is the more pro ready, but you don’t control the game from the forward slot, so very good player,but so is Durant.What place is his team in?Don’t misunderstand, I like both guys but you need a team in place.Beasley is perfect for Chi unless they want to rebuild on the fly, then it’s Rose.If I’m D’Antoni I want vets that can run and shoot, so I’m for trading if I can get, let’s see Barbossa for #6.If not I like K.Love, who could be Paul Silas(Can’t jump, but DeBusshere couldn’t either) with a jumper.You can’t run without the ball, and everyone concedes Love has a great outlet pass which anyone who has ever played knows creates running mismatches and lay-ups.If LOVE is a true rebounder I can then package D.Lee for upgrades and cap space.The other guy I can take if I trade down is Joe Alexander.This guy is a little raw, but I believe will be a great scorer on a running team.He is all the athlete the Italian Job isn’t.Plus he has an unbelievable work ethic.He has attitude,appears to have heart and can hit the perimeter J(Sorry David, you should have let it go,WHEN YOU HAD THE CHANCE!)He will be big in the NBA, but you may have to wait a year.Then again, maybe not.The rest of the draftees are the usual very talented one dimensional guys who think they are LeBron’s little brothers.Guys look in the mirror, go back to the gym and work on the other parts of your game.As far as Boston/LA, I like Boston’s team.Love KG,Ray,Sam and Doc.I want it for them.Screw Boston.They have vets who know they will never get this close again.That means something in the endgame.Except for Koby and Lamar those bench boys are wet behind the ears.Luke Walton and R. Turief aren’t scary.Boston plays great D and has won the most games.Kobe will put on a show, but I believe his crew will fade in the end.Boston will play them very, very physically.Gasol will have to prove a whole lot to K.Perkins, Big Baby et al. and Kobe will truly have to be “Superman”, not just the Mamba to win this.I wish him luck too.Nothing wrong with forgiveness!Love his game, detest his brain.Let the games begin and the best team win, I’ve got my popcorn ready.But when it’s all said and done, LGK!Go get’em Donny!
Kevin McHale should do jail time as an accomplice in one of the biggest thefts in history.
and whoever the GM was in Memphis last year must have been drinking Jim Jones Kool Aid Lite!!!
sa far as lakers celtics… I have no great love for LA or Big Chief Triangle…however with the knicks planning to be up and comers I do not want Boston to walk around next year with their chests stuck out.
I not even crazy about how Kobe carries himself, but he leaves it all on the floor and seems to have matured.
as to Ray Allen I couldn’t care less for him since he appointed himself as Kobe’s therapist,Paul Pierce though very talented has always played like a rich high society woman on the rag and KG is deserving of being on the big national stage for his hardwood skills
Yet I WANT(not predict) the Lakers in 6
As for the Bockers I do not see Reggie Evans being a D’Antoni kinda baller..although if he could lease Curry some of his toughness we would be on to something…that being said I can see Walsh trying to get multiple picaks in this draft as a way to clean the “air”
Has anyone seen JaVale Mcgee play? if so please share your insights..knowledge…he palys like an unpolished Camby…but appears to have the foundation to be a better offensive player
Saipan
Sadly what we want, the Celtics to lose this series, and what we’ll get Bostonians smugley talking more smack after the Celtics win another title is to sad to stomach.
I can respect Garnett, although I heard he’s a real prick to ballboys b/c he’s so darn intense.
But I hate Pierce, he has treated the Knicks like shyt, he is so disrespectful. I’ll always remember that he made an ass of himself on MLK day. What a way to honor a man of peace than by instigating a possible fist fight.
Sadly, the Lakers will have to pull off at least two road wins in Boston, or win three straight in LA to win the Chip. I don’t see that happening.
Arggggghhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!
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