Lakers@Knicks
December 23, 2007 – 2:44 amDVJ has been waiting for this… Put Jeffries on Kobe. Isiah will probably put Q on Kobe, then Fred–bet you everything but the kitchen sink. Kobe will be Kobe, of course, but Fred is too short to guard anyone over 6′5″, and he’s been guarding Kevin Durant and all kinds of tall players this year.
Word is Bynum has improved.
Tipoff is at noon…
226 Responses to “Lakers@Knicks”
I’ll miss todays game so I’ll be checking in to see the updates from
you guys! It was great to see bokonon’s post. I have a lot of respect for
him, but I must disagree in that a record of 14-12 by the Hawks own 4th seed
of the Eastern Conference. The Knicks have 56 games to get their act together
at 8-18. Not such a huge mission! I won’t quit on this team no matter what.
Even if we split the 56 games and go 33-33 it gets us to 41 wins and a playoff berth!
I don’t care if we get swept, it’s a goal, and we can ride it in the future.
I think Thomas’s biggest mistake is not getting Ron Ron Now! His megar 8 million dollar
contract can be had if he gives up 2 players and a draft pick! He’s the missing link!
I have lost all respect for Q! I hope he collects splinters today!
Nate,Balkman, Jefferies and Chandler should play heavy minutes today!
We seem to play well against LA, so lets get a W.
By Peaceman on Dec 23, 2007
Correction,
George Bush math this early AM, I meant to say we need to win 33 of
the 56 games left! That means going 33-23 the rest of the way!
Not really impossible!
By Peaceman on Dec 23, 2007
Google Alert - new york knicks Sun 12/23/2007 2:21 AM
Laker
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Knicks’ Stephon Marbury files grievance over fine given for …
No Time for Yesterday. No Wonder.
Knicks PG says he had permission to miss game
Cheering Section Young Fans Stick by Knicks, and Vice Versa
The New York Knicks Will Not Tolerate Your Taunts
Things To Know: Knicks
Kobe: Knicks on short list for trade (BREAKING NEWS)
Assessing the New York Knicks: Time for Some Changes
Be Kind - Hug a New York Knicks Fan
By Syd on Dec 23, 2007
http://knicksprotest.wordpress.com/2007/12/17/12302007-ny-knick-fire-isiah-protest-at-msg-1100-am/
Hey Guys, on my site’s comment section info in the above link was left about protesting the December 30 game on my site. I left it there because I don’t believe in censoring stuff that isn’t spam. I simply cannot tell you how wrongheaded this protest is. After being his #1 defender, because of his coaching more than anything, I personally believe that Isiah should step down. But protest? Any more protests are simply a WIN for our vicious NY tabloids. They are the ones that created this hysteria. They create it, then cover the protest they create, and then reward people for the 15 minutes of fame. Now it snowballs. Protests only serve to validate their hate.
Now what WOULD be meaningful is a protest against the tabloids that feeds this beast. You know the same people who long for the glory days of the Patrick Ewing era, but told him “Good Riddance” [NY Post Headline] on the day he was traded. Long after the Isiah era is over these people will still be here. And that is a much bigger problem. To have this focused on Isiah/Dolan – even if you, like me, believe he should be fired – is extremely short-sighted. There is a much bigger picture here, and no disgruntled Knicks fan should accept being manipulated as sheep.
While I do understand the passion of those who want to protest, it is seriously misplaced. Personally, I want the Knicks to win as much as anybody else. I would suggest that we ask any wanna-be Knick protester the following questions? Have you stood up to protest the war in Iraq? (assuming that you are against it) Have you protested against the Jena 6? Did you attend a “Save Darfur” rally? A protest against media accountability? Any other really meaningful cause? If the answer is a consistent NO, then that fact needs to be seriously thought through.
By MODI on Dec 23, 2007
Modi, Very good points and yur post does make me realize that Bball is still just a sport. However, it doesn’t dismiss the fact that this situation is in an irreversible downward spiral that was caused by those 2 idiots.
Here’s the problem, we can’t have these same guys fix the problems, they are just not capable. DaVonn and others want Kobe or Artest to come here and that will fix everything. First of all, Artest has never won anything except a fight in the stands, and I don’t believe Kobe is going to leave a better team to come with this mess and even if he wanted to what could the Knicks give up (see post #50 from PaulNoize in the Just 2 more weeks posts from last night) that the Lakers would even consider besides a cut of ownership!
HERE’S THE PLAN: THE KNICKS NEED TO GET IN POSITION TO CHANGE THINGS, they are not in position yet to make significant moves. They have to get tradeable assets first, many of them, then they can start to bring some All-Stars in. I would plan for 2009-10 to have a team that can compete (first of all play defense) and I would make all the moves right now that they can to add a Luol Deng (FA this summer) and 2 (one’s a lock) lottery picks for 2008-09. Those acquistions will determine the moves for the next year when there will be $29 million available in expiring contracts.
But at the end of the day, you have to have someone competent and well liked enough to pull the trigger on these moves.
By StevieKnix on Dec 23, 2007
StevieKnix,
You are entitled to your opinion. Mine is that by you saying “Artest never won Anything
except a fight in the stands’” is lack of vision and knowing the game enough to Know Artest
fills our deepest hole! BTW, I’m not about to cave into this bullshit about looking to 2009
to win games! I still believe with a tough defensive forward that can defend the Pierces,
Lewis’s, even guard Howard is exactly what we need! A leader! Your dismissal of Artest
as a loser just shows your ignorants about Hoop and what this team needs! I believe in this team
and would not want it blown up, just fixed by a minor trade!
By Peaceman on Dec 23, 2007
PEace, I may be ignorant but I’ve been watching the NBA religously for a very long time (don’t want to age myself, but I’ve seen Artis Gilmore play in person), I’ve had NBA LEague PAss for about 7 years and even thogu the Knicks suck I still watch them and other teams as much as I can. So dont’ question my bball knowledge if you don’t know me. That being said, yours is an admirable attitude, but dead wrong. The Knicks don’t have just one hole! They have a huge hole, if you can hold Pierce to 18 points ( not to mention he’s a good passer that leads the C’s in assists, he doesn’t have to shoot to be effective) who’s guarding KG and Ray Allen, let alone Rondo whos’ shooting 53%. If you guard Lewis, who’s guarding Howard or even Nelson. If you guard LeBron(also effective as a passer), and Artest may hold him to 24 points, who’s guarding Z, Gooden, Varejao, etc. You get the point. I think Artest is an excellent basketball player, great defensivley and a very good offensive player. But he’s still a nutcase, and he is only one guy, the Knicks need to play TEAM DEFENSE. One guy, as good as Artest is on defense, will change the opponents FG% from the current 48.3% to something lower like 47%. The Knicks shoot 43.2%, still a huge difference. The Knicks need a defense strategy to run, that is able to adjust(meaning match-up to several players, not just the one guy that Artest can cover) and then get the right employees to execute the startegy. It’s a semi-long term plan, but it’s the only one that will work. Again, call me an idiot if you will, cuz most of the time I am, but I am right about this.
By StevieKnix on Dec 23, 2007
BTW, SAC-Boston box score from a week ago:
STARTERS MIN FGM-A 3PM-A FTM-A OREB DREB REB AST STL BLK TO PF PTS
Paul Pierce, GF 44 7-15 1-6 11-12 0 6 6 4 2 1 1 1 26
STARTERS MIN FGM-A 3PM-A FTM-A OREB DREB REB AST STL BLK TO PF PTS
Ron Artest, SF 41 7-19 0-5 2-2 0 3 3 4 1 2 4 5 16
Boston wins.
Sacramento has better players around them than thje Knicks, Artest alone is not the answer, there’s proof from an idiot who debates with facts. Where are your facts, Peace?
Quit hoping, start pushing for some moves that will build something for the future, it’s called a strategy. Idiots don’t usually have them. Oops.
By StevieKnix on Dec 23, 2007
I thought that they (Knicks would be in the playoffs this year,
and I still do, but there are tremendous distractions: Phil Jackson
@ Stevieknicks,
A defensive leader makes everyone around him better on defense,
that is the point you fail to see! Defense can be contagious when
you have someone leading by example. You also call Artest a headcase!
The idiot who threw beer on him was a convicted Felon on Parole!
Like I said before, Barkley, Ewing, Oak and too many NBA stars would have
done the same thing as Artest! As a matter of fact Willis Reed and Walt Belamy
Cleared the lakers bench and flattened a few fans in a brawl that ended up breaking
the league’s logo’s nose! No one calls them Head Case’s??????? Reed’s in the HOF!
By Peaceman on Dec 23, 2007
Steveknicks
You will prove that you are the idiot as the Knicks will turn this around!
With Artest, we go deep in the playoffs!
By Peaceman on Dec 23, 2007
One game against Boston is your proof???? lol
You are an idiot!
By Peaceman on Dec 23, 2007
DEE-FENDERS,
In the Spirit of boycotts & injustices, I would like to send a PRAYER out to Brother John White, who found out that
you CANNONT DEFEND your FAMILY against a MOB of THUGS in Suffolk County. The jury of his PEERS(yeah), reinforced
KING RICHARD’S statement, ‘You go to Courts looking for Justice, and that is what you find in jail, “JUST US”. Let’s
hold a RALLY to protest how a “White Man in Pasedena, Texas can leave his home, go next door and shoot 2 men in the back,
run back to his home and say he was in danger, and NEVER GETS CHARGED. While a BLACK MAN DEFENDS his family outside HIS home and is
looking at 5-15. The DUAL JUDICIDIAL SYSTEM is why we should rally.
Peace & Blessings
By STATESMAN on Dec 23, 2007
Peace, go ahead and give me one more counterpoint, but here’s my last post on the subject, and you can have the last.
“A defensive leader makes everyone around him better on defense,
that is the point you fail to see!” You are absolutely right, if there is a team commitment to a good strategy. The Knicks haven’t proved either. I do fail to see what happened to your plan in the box score between SAC-Boston, Pierce completely played Artest to the point where he almost fouled out. Artest used to give Pierce a great battle, but that’s when you could afford to double team Pierce, you cannot any longer.
“You also call Artest a headcase!
The idiot who threw beer on him was a convicted Felon on Parole!” Ah, this is not an isolated innocent with him, and yes that was a cheap shot by me, but wtf, how does he ironically get himself in these situations in a consistant basis?
“Like I said before, Barkley, Ewing, Oak and too many NBA stars would have
done the same thing as Artest!” They may have, but they didn’t go into the stands and pummel their meal ticket. Barkley at least waited til he got to a bar, lol.
“As a matter of fact Willis Reed and Walt Belamy
Cleared the lakers bench and flattened a few fans in a brawl that ended up breaking
the league’s logo’s nose! No one calls them Head Case’s??????? Reed’s in the HOF!” Dude, maybe they did flatten some fans, the other team is fair game, I don’t know, even so it had to be over 30 years ago, it’s not acceptable today in any sport except maybe World Soccer. What most level headed athletes do today is these situations is call security over and have people ejected. That makes sense, not pummeling people in full view of impressionable children. That and other incidents make him a head case.
So my point is not about what Artest does or can do, I know he can’t do it alone, he’s proven that on the Bulls, PAcers and now the Kings. They all had much better players, defensively capable, than the Knikcs have now. And what, the Knicks need a “big brother” to come in here and fight their battles, the zillions of dollars they are getting now for underperforming or just good old fashioned pride in themselves or the game is not enough? C’mon, they need to man up and earn some respect before they prove they’re worthy of another chance.
By StevieKnix on Dec 23, 2007
Calling me an idiot, is not a strategy or counterpoint dude. I’m the idiot, but you are the one making speculative predictions that this team would make the playoffs with a player that you don’t even have.
Right , I’m the idiot. The Bos-Sac game is a fact, the overall picture is that Artest has never won anything. Now if you had Artest, Camby and maybe a Deron Williams, then you would have something. But the Knicks have no possible way to accomplish that until 2009-10, case in point for my original post #4. Later!
By StevieKnix on Dec 23, 2007
(singing voice)
oh oh here he comes
watch out Knicks, he’ll chew you up
oh oh here he comes
it’s the black mamba
(back to my regular voice)
LOL @ Paulnoize…..
Only because it seems like he and stevieknix don’t understand that the Lakers don’t hold the power in this deal.
Kobe has all the power in this. What he says is what will more than likely happen.
If he says we are on his list of teams then guess what? We’re on his list of teams LOL.
It’s not what the Lakers WANT in this deal…..
It’s what they can get…….
If Kobe didn’t have that no trade clause he would’ve been gone already.
Open your eyes my friends and enjoy the greatest scorer since Wilt on the greatest stage on Earth.
By DaVonn Jefferson on Dec 23, 2007
Curry is a fat, lazy fuck…
He doesn’t even go after rebounds!!
Just stands there and watches other people do his job.
I hate to bust anybody’s bubble, be were aren’t going anywhere as long as he’s a Knick.
That’s a fact, jack.
By bronxboy in Md on Dec 23, 2007
This game is about to get ugly!!!!
Pretty soon the Knicks (especially Jamal) won’t care about the game.
They’ll all just be standing around watching Kobe.
Same effect Jordan use to have on teams.
By DaVonn Jefferson on Dec 23, 2007
DaVonn, it is what the Lakers want and then if Kobe approves it. That’s how it goes down, if at all. The LAkers aren’t taking nothing for him, nothing meaning anything that Knicks have to offer. If anything, since the beginning of the season the value of Kobe has risen dramatically. They didn’t dump Shaq for him just to end up giving him away for a couple of role players. They have plenty of role players that are better than the Knicks players right now. They’ll need an All Star, some retiring contracts and some lottery picks. The Knicks have one lottery pick right now and that’s it, unless they get in the playoffs, nevermind, they have one lottery pick to trade.
By StevieKnix on Dec 23, 2007
Sit Crawford now.
By Jay Bee on Dec 23, 2007
Damn that was quick, God is good.
By Jay Bee on Dec 23, 2007
Watch us take off now.
By Jay Bee on Dec 23, 2007
Quicker hook for some of these guys tonight.
By Jay Bee on Dec 23, 2007
Nice run by us!!!
Jamal has been taken out the game by Mamba!!!
Somebody find me Anti !!!!!
By DaVonn Jefferson on Dec 23, 2007
Instead of telling me what the Lakers would do Stevie….why don’t you give me an example of a trade.
Before you hit the submit button…make sure Kobe would approve going to the other team with the players
they have left.
Oh yeah…you only have 4 teams to work with also.
Dallas, PHX, Chicago and US!!!!
LOL
Open your eyes.
By DaVonn Jefferson on Dec 23, 2007
Sitting: Curry, Crawford, Richardson was but he’s back up.
Playing: Lee, Robinson, Jones, Zach and Q in for Jeffries.
5 point game.
By Jay Bee on Dec 23, 2007
Jeffries back in for Jones.
By Jay Bee on Dec 23, 2007
Curry in for Randolph.
Mamba checks out.
By Jay Bee on Dec 23, 2007
Laker 5 point mini run coinciding with Curry checking in. Quarter ends Lakers 31 Knicks 21. Nate has been a positive sparkplug. Crawford MIA. Curry no defense no hustle.
By Jay Bee on Dec 23, 2007
This game is over.
See how he’s picking our team apart?
Anybody notice jamal watching Kobe? LOL
Told ya’ll!!!
We trade the house for this guy.
By DaVonn Jefferson on Dec 23, 2007
Curry dunked on hard by Chris Mihm refusing to raise his arms to block the shot. Curry’s mom shrieks in disgust and concern for her baby.
By Jay Bee on Dec 23, 2007
Mihm just banged it right on Curry’s face!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
That may put Curry in depression when he watches that replay tonight LOL….
By DaVonn Jefferson on Dec 23, 2007
Where is Balkman?
By Jay Bee on Dec 23, 2007
Too much dribbling.
By Jay Bee on Dec 23, 2007
Watching these Knicks makes me ashamed of being a fan of this team for over 38 years…
This has got be an all-time low for me as a Knick fan.
By bronxboy in Md on Dec 23, 2007
The Knicks play like PUSSIES.
Will N8 shoot everytime he touch the ball.
JChuck is horrible. You guys compared him to Kobe, Wade. etc…..Please. Crawford is not in top 15 in league.
Where is the HEART? They can’t handle the BOOOOOOING. They deserve every BOO.
Peace & Blessings
By STATESMAN on Dec 23, 2007
Trade everybody!!!!! LOL
This game is going to be a 20 point game by the 2nd half.
Phil don’t even have Odom, Fisher or Bynum in the game and they killing us like this!!!
Kobe can save us Jay Bee!!!
By DaVonn Jefferson on Dec 23, 2007
The Knicks have 10 TURNOVERS to 1 by the LAKERS
By STATESMAN on Dec 23, 2007
Crawford 0-6.
By Jay Bee on Dec 23, 2007
Knicks down 17.
By Jay Bee on Dec 23, 2007
The last minute rally to make it close is insignificant. Could Mardy & Balk do worse then
these guys.
Peace & Blessings
By STATESMAN on Dec 23, 2007
Was that Curry with the sweet dunk? I’m confused.
By Jay Bee on Dec 23, 2007
14 point game.
By Jay Bee on Dec 23, 2007
14 Minutes Curry has 1-Rebound. Do you blame Zeke for this?
Peace & Blessings
By STATESMAN on Dec 23, 2007
Starting 5 back in.
By Jay Bee on Dec 23, 2007
Playing with slightly more energy.
By Jay Bee on Dec 23, 2007
Are you serious with that pass to Bynum?
See how Bynum goes up to dunk the ball everytime!!!!!!
By DaVonn Jefferson on Dec 23, 2007
Just to illustrate the mental state of this KNick team…
Curry gets knocked to the floor….NOBODY offers a hand to lift him up……
Damn.
By bronxboy in Md on Dec 23, 2007
Brnxboy,
W/ 1 Rebound in 16 minutes, I wouldn’t help him either.
Peace & Blessings
By STATESMAN on Dec 23, 2007
The Lakers are Playing Down to the Knicks. They are not taking them serious!!
Peace & Blessings
By STATESMAN on Dec 23, 2007
Knuckles too busy draggin’ on the ground to rebound or block shots.
By Jay Bee on Dec 23, 2007
Whatya think Zeke tells this group at halftime to motivate them?
By bronxboy in Md on Dec 23, 2007
Nate Robinson 5 rebounds Curry 1
By Jay Bee on Dec 23, 2007
@ Statesman, #47,
Noted.
They’re probably thinking, “shyt, he aint helpin’ us…fugg him”…
By bronxboy in Md on Dec 23, 2007
Kobe 5 assists Knicks 3. No Knick with more than one assist.
By Jay Bee on Dec 23, 2007
Q and Crawford nonexistent.
By Jay Bee on Dec 23, 2007
Zbo 8 points 8 rebounds
By Jay Bee on Dec 23, 2007
Can we get a hard foul. Lakers driving and dunking at will.
By Jay Bee on Dec 23, 2007
@#23 JayBee,
There are no workable trades that have been offered, that’s the point, or else Kobe would be somewhere else right now. Of the 4 teams you mentioned that he would agree to a trade to…only 3 have tradeable assets to get it done, the Knicks do not. The only reason he isnt’ at one of those actually good teams, is because they have to trade their All STars to get the Lakers to agree, and once they trade the All STars, Kobe is right back to square one, playing with role players.
So, you open your eyes, and shut your mouth. LOL, really.
By StevieKnix on Dec 23, 2007
Re: #50 - No speech. Oakley and Mase are in the tunnel waiting to beat all of they azzes.
By Jay Bee on Dec 23, 2007
#23 was DaVonn
By Jay Bee on Dec 23, 2007
Umm, post #23 was DVJ’s post, StevieKnix….
By bronxboy in Md on Dec 23, 2007
OBTW StevieKnix…I agree with your last wholeheartedly.
By bronxboy in Md on Dec 23, 2007
I like my apologies in writing.
By Jay Bee on Dec 23, 2007
“Of the 4 teams you mentioned that he would agree to a trade to…only 3 have tradeable assets to get it done, the Knicks do not.”
Please give us some of your trade scenarios.
Start with Chicago…who would you offer if you were the Bulls?
“The only reason he isnt’ at one of those actually good teams, is because they have to trade their All STars to get the Lakers to agree, and once they trade the All STars, Kobe is right back to square one, playing with role players.”
Which means Kobe has the power in this deal. He wouldn’t accept a trade to a team with no help.
However, he would accept a deal to a city that would make him an extra 200 million in endorsements.
Gives that team a chance to put some talented people around him and make a run in a weak east.
Don’t forget Zach would still be here also. Remember what happened the last time Kobe teamed up with a 20 and 10 guy right?
It’s ok Stevie, you got one eye open. Your almost there. We just need you to open that second one.
I know it’s hard when your just waking up but we’ll give you some time.
“So, you open your eyes, and shut your mouth. LOL, really.”
I like how you tried to clean this up with the LOL.
Don’t let your negative emotions show here.
I always let my positive emotions show but never my negative ones.
You don’t have to insult people to make your point known.
Mamba may have 30 in the second half.
By DaVonn Jefferson on Dec 23, 2007
Okay, venting time:
– The only worse coaching job that i have ever witnessed to Isiah this year is Larry Browns. My theory, in part, was that Larry Brown was tanking that
season. Others have said it, but for the first time this is in my mind as a real possibility for Isiah. I’m baffled
– What did Renaldo Balkman ever do to Isiah? Seriously, what did he do? Besides the Cavs game the only really impressive win was the game Balkman came in against Denver shut down Melo and sparked the Knicks. BTW, the Knicks are 5-4 when Balkman gets more than 15 minutes.
– What kind of dirt does Q have on isiah thomas? More than Marbury?
– Crawford can win you games or lose you games. When he is of he is off. Why not sit him for the rest of the half and wait until early 2nd half to see if he regains touch? (At which point you sit him if he is off.)
– The most terrible thing about his coaching is that we are losing AND not developing young players/ Like someone said, can Mardy do worse? I’d rather work through Mardy’s mistakes and see him grow than this.
– The fact that the starting lineup still hasn’t changed is still one of the biggest unsolved mysteries in all of sports.
– I will not dog the collective talent on this team until I see it coached properly.
– There are only two guards even CAPABLE of running the Knicks offense: Marbury or Collins. Hate all you want on marbury, but this is true. If Marbury won’t be playing then Collins must be developed. Plain and simple. Collins looked sharp last year after getting some jittery games under his belt.
Okay, I think that I’m done now. That feels better. Needed that to get ready for the second half.
———————-
BTW, don’t let anyone interpret my venting as a sign that I support that dumbass, misguided protest next week. That protest offends me on four separate levels: 1) as a real Knicks fan; 2) as a New Yorker; 3) as an instrument that our hateful local media can mold like putty; 4) as an actual cause worth getting on the streets for (see statesman’s post on “The DUAL JUDICIDIAL SYSTEM is why we should rally.”) — amen statesman
By MODI on Dec 23, 2007
Ditto you on the vent MODI
This terrible coaching is mindbogling!
By Black and Blue on Dec 23, 2007
But also note that the team is settling for jumpers and there are no dive and dishes going on.
No attempt to draw in the defense and then kick out!
All the Knick wins this year are, are merely oasis in the desert of misery.
ISIAH YOU F’N TOOL STEP DOWN FROM THE BENCH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
By Black and Blue on Dec 23, 2007
Oh, Sorry Jay Bee, with 2 blocks by ZBO sprinkled on top. Now that’s something you don’t get everyday.
By StevieKnix on Dec 23, 2007
Clyde says, “Bynum is no match for Curry…he’s taking him to school”….
WTF is he talking about????
He blocked Curry’s last shot and altered countless others…plus
His team is up by 24 points!!!!
Don’t be a fuggin’ homer, Clyde.
By bronxboy in Md on Dec 23, 2007
Somebody tell me what Jamal is thinking trying to dunk on Mamba?
By DaVonn Jefferson on Dec 23, 2007
N8 is still Gunning, & Curry is STUCK on 1 rebound 8 minutes into 3rd quarter. Eddy can’t be this bad.
When he had 2 shots blocked in Chicago I thought maybe that preseason injury is more serious then let on.
You don’t want the league to know but Curry has 1- more Rebound then Randolph Morris today.
JChuck, come on guys, he is a BUSTER!!
Peace & Blessings
By STATESMAN on Dec 23, 2007
Curry is finished.
However, I feel with the right coach like Modi says…he can be 10 times better than what he is.
I couldn’t agree with your more MODI about the coaching.
Lee, Curry, Nate and Zach with good coaching would be nice to see.
One more quarter to try to win this game.
Jamal starting to come around.
Maybe this is one of those second halfs where he doesn’t miss.
Take me home!!!
By DaVonn Jefferson on Dec 23, 2007
Good job tonight N8.
By Jay Bee on Dec 23, 2007
7 point game.
By Jay Bee on Dec 23, 2007
@DVJ #63
DaVonn, the Bulls already made an offer, I believe it was something to the tune of Gordon or Hinrich, Wallace and Thomas. The LAkers wanted Deng in place of one of them, and I bleive both the Bulls and Kobe rejected that. So they can’t get him without giving up the players that Kobe wants to play with.
2nd point, Kobe does have final say over the deal and that is power. The Lakers are fielding the offers though, he can oly say no/yes to what Kupchak puts in front of him. I don’t Paxson is calling Kobe to start these conversations.
3rd point, Kobe and endorsements? Listen, I admit that I don’t a lot about this, but does he still have big endoresments after his rape trial? I mean how does he get any more endorsements that he would in LA anyway. $200 million? Does Tiger even get that? He don’t live in NY. The only thing he was accused of is raping a golf course.
Your 4th point, Zach is not and will never be Shaq! ZBO has been 20-10 guy twice in seven years and he plays absolutely plays no defense. His career avg’s are 16 and 8, where do you get 20-10? He has a total of 109 blocks in his whole career, let me repeat that –109 blocks in his whole career. Shaq has avg. almost 200 blocks per season in a 15 year career. Zach is no Shaq!
Last point, wasn’t trying to hide my sentiment, I’m not negative, I’m realistic.
By StevieKnix on Dec 23, 2007
BTW, thank you Bronxboy.
By StevieKnix on Dec 23, 2007
3 by vujacic. 10 point game. 2 by Farmar. 12 point game.
By Jay Bee on Dec 23, 2007
Lineup: N8, Crawford, Q, Scholar and Jeffries.
By Jay Bee on Dec 23, 2007
Say what you want about N8…he has the heart of a lion!!
If Curry had one-sixteenth of his heart, he’d be a potential Hall of Famer…..
By bronxboy in Md on Dec 23, 2007
Q is such a fuggin whinin’ crybaby…
What’s up with these fugazy tough guys from Chicago?
By bronxboy in Md on Dec 23, 2007
Damn shame what they did to that dog
By DaVonn Jefferson on Dec 23, 2007
What did Q do to Kobe?
Maybe Kobe mad because Q is going with Brandy who Kobe took to his prom.
Has to be something LOL
By DaVonn Jefferson on Dec 23, 2007
Crawford/Lee/N8 are in the middle of every Knick run…
And conversely, Curry is watching from the bench.
Get that fat fuck outta here.
By bronxboy in Md on Dec 23, 2007
That’s why Craw’s jersey is hangin’ on my basement wall, next to my trophies!!
He’s the truth!!
By bronxboy in Md on Dec 23, 2007
Craw doing his thing now!!!!
By DaVonn Jefferson on Dec 23, 2007
Sorry Bronx,
Pierce is the Truth, and he is better than Crawford. Come up with something different please.
By StevieKnix on Dec 23, 2007
3 point game after flagrant foul by Odom on Jamal. Jamal makes both free throws and on the inbound Jamal hits a floater. Next possession Jamal fouled by Kobe on a 3ptr. Makes all three.
By Jay Bee on Dec 23, 2007
Jamal giveth. Jamal taketh away.
By Jay Bee on Dec 23, 2007
Tonight Jamal giveth. Mamba with 37, Jamal 31.
By Jay Bee on Dec 23, 2007
Zeke is coachin’ a great game….
Crawford is a poor man’s KB24….
By bronxboy in Md on Dec 23, 2007
Two free throws by Lee. One point game!!! The Garden is electrified. The fairweathers are offa their azzes.
By Jay Bee on Dec 23, 2007
Bynum with a goaltend that wasn’t called. 3 point game under a minute.
By Jay Bee on Dec 23, 2007
This turned out to be the best game to watch as a fan so far this year!!
Jamal and Kobe going back and forth?
PROVE US WRONG JAMAL!!!!!!!!!!!!!
By DaVonn Jefferson on Dec 23, 2007
Craw had a good look at the three…I’ll take that shot by him ANYTIME….
@ StevieKnix…
Noted. Craw is the closest thing WE have to the truth.
He comes through more often than not.
By bronxboy in Md on Dec 23, 2007
Lil’ big man N8 comes up with the rebound…
Curry would’ve been looking with his mouth open…
By bronxboy in Md on Dec 23, 2007
During the time out, Curry seem laffin’ on the side with Zbo, who promptly walks away from him….
This doesn’t bother him a bit……which irritates the hell outta me.
By bronxboy in Md on Dec 23, 2007
The Knicks are nothing but fuck ups!!!
By DaVonn Jefferson on Dec 23, 2007
One game after another…..fuck ups!!!
We need a leader.
Since you guys don’t want Kobe…why don’t you throw some names out there for us to see
where your minds are at.
I want Kobe here…
Who do you guys say we go after?
Leaders only!!
By DaVonn Jefferson on Dec 23, 2007
Trautwig always has the opponents’ cock in his mouth after a loss.
By Jay Bee on Dec 23, 2007
Did you guys listen to Bynum’s post game interview??
This kid knows what time it is.
Just think…we could’ve had him, but drafted Channing Frye.
By bronxboy in Md on Dec 23, 2007
I’ll be waiting here for your names….
That’s if you can find one that has the balls to say he wants to come here and play.
Lebron is locked up in Cleveland.
Carmello and Wade also.
Who do you guys suggest?
By DaVonn Jefferson on Dec 23, 2007
Time for Santa to wrap gifts. Damn I wish I had some elves to do this shi+ for me.
By Jay Bee on Dec 23, 2007
DVJ…
My suggestion is that we not covet other peoples’ players, and work on what we have.
I said it before, and I’ll say it again…
FUCK KOBE!!!
By bronxboy in Md on Dec 23, 2007
BXMD you know if we drafted him he would not have lasted.
By Jay Bee on Dec 23, 2007
I want young talent to build on. We wont get Kobe, we wont get Lebron, Wade or any other superstar, its that simple.Thinking anything else is just hiding head in the sand not looking at the truth.
By maestro on Dec 23, 2007
That might be true Jaybee, but he’s sure an upgrade over what we have at that position.
By bronxboy in Md on Dec 23, 2007
DVJ
Good game by your boy Mamba.
Lay some of the blame of this loss on Isiah.
Dude needs to stop putting that same lethargic starting lineup into the game every time out.
I don’t want to see cury or Zach on the floor together.
If either of them is out there they should be matched with an energy hustle 3 or 4 who will pick up for their defensive and rebounding deficiencies.
MODI is 100% percent correct about Zeke as coach.
Thomas is an ass of a coach!
If you had a half way decent defensive coach:
Taz would be developed further to harness his hustle into a defensive specialist;
The team would have a more balanced and non-lethargic starting five;
The new coach would have no such loyalties, or blackmailers, who could keep there presence on the starting 5 or in the rotation when their play doesn’t merrit it.
At this point we are clearly seeing that the 2 man power post doesn’t work.
A more balanced team is needed.
And if we are going to compete for any semblance of respectability this year, and god forsake a playoff spot, we will need to develop the young players who are currently not seeing enough PT over the overpaid prima donnas and lethargic players.
Last point note how it was pionted out that Bynum has been working with Kareem Abdul Jabar.
An all time great!
Curry with “fat man post move” aguire.
Anything that Curry can give in terms of further development will not happen while he is being coached simply by Aguire.
Like Bynum and Howard, he needs a great who will command his respect, if we intend to get anything out of him.
Even if all it is, is trade value
By Black and Blue on Dec 23, 2007
You want to work with what we have?
What do we have?
When the other player says he wants to play here…is that
really coveting other people’s players?
Again I ask you…what do we have?
By DaVonn Jefferson on Dec 23, 2007
See how he took control of the game when he needed to?
That’s what we need?
We don’t need to build through the draft.
In case you didn’t know..we have the most 1st round draft picks on our team
than anybody else in the league. That’s right…we have 12 first rounders on our
team.
So again I ask you….what do we have?
By DaVonn Jefferson on Dec 23, 2007
If Marbury would’ve made that inbound pass he would’ve got killed in the press and booed at the Garden.
Let’s see what backlash Lee gets for his lazy ass pass.
By DaVonn Jefferson on Dec 23, 2007
“They were, yeah,” Bryant said when asked if the Knicks were among the teams for which he’d agree to waive his no-trade clause. After the Knicks and Bulls, Bryant said it was the Mavericks and Suns, marking the first time he has publicly disclosed the list.
Asked if he removed the Knicks from consideration in mid-October because of the uncertainty and turmoil churning at Madison Square Garden, Bryant said, “No, I just kind of pushed everything to the back burner and stopped thinking about trades. It wasn’t something where I was scratching teams off or anything like that. I just stopped thinking about it because once the season got under way, my focus had to be here. It couldn’t be split because I’d be doing a disservice to my teammates.”
Asked if the list still is on the back burner and if his formal trade request still is on the table, Bryant said, “Call Mitch Kupchak and see what he thinks about that. I don’t get into that … It’s all what Mitch wants to do, really. Mitch and Dr. Buss. It’s all on them. They can either trade me or not trade me. It’s completely their decision.”
By DaVonn Jefferson on Dec 23, 2007
holy cow, what an amazing, thoroughly entertaining game! however. i got the feelin phil was mostly foolin around with the lineup in the second half, using it as a coaching/experience opportunity for some second stringers (and 3rd stringers, in the case of crittenton) before calling in the full cavalry.
great game, great heart. but i haven’t changed my opinion that zeke is a tease tho. thanks to MODI’s amazing work i can rest assured zeke can’t (or shouldn’t) be framed as anything less than an average GM. in my opinion, he’s above average when you put everything in context. that said, it’s difficult to make the claim he’s an elite-level GM. might be. might be not. after four years, if you have the opportunity to try someone else with a proven track record, you couldn’t fault ownership for wanting a change. dunno if that person is available at this time tho.
as a *coach* zeke is too much the enigma. too much shit don’t make sense (balkman’s *suuurely* involved in some kind of eminent deal, right? right?). granted, he didn’t ask for it, but if you didn’t think you were prepared to cook with your own ingredients, you could have moved upstairs as “consultant.”
overall, he shows flashes of brilliance (?) that are too often offset by confounding moves/non-moves that do not advance the team a whole lot. in dolan he may’ve found someone to gulp down just enough of his offering, but to me i see a guy who, for all his positives, has one too many character flaws (admittedly, i’m not shrink enough to figure out exactly what those are, but hubris is in there somewhere) to be the architect of building a championship team.
anyway i’m not allowing him to flirt with me anymore. i’ve taken my emotional investment in zeke and moved on. he should be a freelance consultant for nba teams in the off-season or perhaps coach college. that’s it.
By Charles Follymacher on Dec 23, 2007
DVJ
See how even “coach” Thomas is recognizing his folly.
How the fuck is that it’s taken him almost a third of the season to figure it out.
Also if we could get Kobe and keep any semblance of a team then I would sign on.
But if we can’t get Kobe.
What is your contingency plan?
Also I think STEVIE KNIX is the Celtic guy TOM!
Revealed it all with the Paul Pierce blowjob you gave.
GTFOH!
Cloacked green hypocrite!
Go taint another blog!
By Black and Blue on Dec 23, 2007
African!
Get you gat out!
By Black and Blue on Dec 23, 2007
And what would we give Lakers for Kobe ?
By maestro on Dec 23, 2007
Call it what you want…but Kobe can be a Knick.
Dallas is not trading Dirk. Cuban already has said that.
Lakers won’t trade him to a team in their own division so PHX is off.
Chicago won’t include Deng so their at a stalemate.
Who’s left?
LOL
No if the Lakers want to hold on to him for another year (trading deadline Feb 09) and
lose him for nothing then that’s up to them. Seems like that’s what a few of you here
would do.
That’s fine also.
But don’t tell me Kobe can’t be a Knick.
And to Stevieknix….yes Mamba would make 200 million here in endorements.
I didn’t know I had to explain to you it wouldn’t be in 1 year.
It’s over the period of playing here.
Come on man……you know how the game works.
We would make him the richest man in the league with his basketball contract alone.
Then he would have the largest marketing deals here also.
If you read yesterdays post here at Knicksdefense…..you would’ve seen me say that
the new Kobe sneakers are coming out in Feb and he on 125th yesterday selling them early so
yes he does still have endorsements. The sneakers are Nike also.
He still has his deals…Nike, Upper Deck, Spalding.
His McDonalds and Sprite adds start running at the beginning of 08.
Come on fellas!!!!
Read between the lines…..
By DaVonn Jefferson on Dec 23, 2007
What we don’t have is Kobe……so stop dreamin’, man.
We have to play with the hand we’re dealt….as depressing as it may seem.
It seems to me that Isiah is being stubborn to the point of being fuggin’ silly…..
He need to change that starting lineup….as previously mentioned, that “power lineup” is garbage….it ain’t working.
Get some defenders in that lineup. I’d strong suggest starting Jeffries in favor of Curry. Sit his unmotivated, immature, tryna be hard with the tattoos-azz on the bench.
The next thing I’d do is remove Q in favor of….hell, I don’t know….anybody!!
Those two are the main reasons for the slow starts.
But you, DVJ, need to wake up. Kobe ain’t coming here anytime soon…..and if and when he does, he won’t be worth nothing.
By bronxboy in Md on Dec 23, 2007
Good stuff Black and Blue!!!
I think you hit it right on the head.
Maestro…
We give the Lakers
Curry, Crawford, Lee, Balkman, Jones and 08 and 09 first rounders for Kobe.
How can you sit here and say they would get a better offer from Chicago?
Give me an example of a trade with Chicago that’s better.
Remember, you can’t include Deng cause Kobe won’t allow that deal to go down.
I can’t wait to hear some of these deals.
By DaVonn Jefferson on Dec 23, 2007
Steph
Kobe
Jeffries
Zach
Morris
That’s a better starting 5 than we have now no?
Chandler
Nate
Rose
James
Collins
That is a better team than what we have now no?
What happens when Artest signs in the offseason and we slide him into the starting 5?
Steph
Kobe
Jeffries
Artest
Zach
Are you kidding me right now?
By DaVonn Jefferson on Dec 23, 2007
I can live with that, but I dont think Lakers will do that.
By maestro on Dec 23, 2007
Would you include Zbo instead of Curry in that deal ?
By maestro on Dec 23, 2007
DVJ
That will leave us with…
Chandler, Morris, Randolph, Collins, Marbury, Rose, Jeffries, James, Q, and Nate.
Work a lineup for me.
We’ll only go 11 deep.
Do we really have to trade 2 number on draft picks?
Sounds excessive to me?
Any way we can keep either Lee or Balkman?
By Black and Blue on Dec 23, 2007
Maestro
Sort of has a point of giving Zbo over Curry.
The only reason I can think that might work is b/c
1. Zbo’s trade value may be higher now.
2. Curry would be redundant in the Lakers system.
3. Maybe Kobe could get into Curry’s head and get him to play up to whatever potential he has.
4. Curry won’t be overshadowed by Zbo and will be their post up guy.
Also if we could get Kobe and a real big man Guru who would coax some additional hustle out of Curry then Kobe would have a legit post presence to compliment his overall game.
Starbury would have some one to keep him in line, and when Artest comes in no Knick remaining can be lax with either Kobe or Artest in their grill.
DVJ
The resident GM
LOL!
By Black and Blue on Dec 23, 2007
I see your lineups DVJ
By Black and Blue on Dec 23, 2007
I just cant see why Lakers would even think about taking Curry when they have Bynum ??? Thats just dreaming from Knicks point of view.
By maestro on Dec 23, 2007
Unfortunately, I can’t seem to find the time to finish anything that I start writing these days. I’ve been longing to comment on a bunch of comments about the Knicks including the ridiculous notio from frustrated fans that the Knicks have little talent and Modi’s excellent piece on the fan’s protest which I had not known about because I was so disconnected. Today, I started two pieces before the game “Anatomy of A Blowout” in which I was hoping to demonstrate why the Knicks have been falling behind in DDD’s since last year and a response to the unsubstantiated opinion that this situation is irreversible, in which I suggest that this situation does not need to be reversed but worked through at an expedited pace which only Zeke can do if we are to make the playoffs.
Since I am now putting up the Christmas Tree while wifey is shopping, the little one is asleep and the bigger one is off visiting a friend, I will sneak in a few rambles after what I thought was a very good game which proves the point of the following.
RAMBLE I
While I am slightly surprised that Isiah is still coaching this team, there is no doubt a very talented team in that clump of clay Isiah has smushed together. Even the MSM haters and Isiah’s former foes agree on that point. The team’s inconsistent play is not indicative of their level of skill, but their willingness or ability to apply that skill in a system that fits their talents. I am not happy with the state of the Knicks — no one should be at this point, but it is very easy to point out everything that is wrong without really pointing to anything at all.
One of the great things about this blog is that there are some very observant eyes and analytical minds here. We have more than “Win-Loss” fans who derive their excitement or frustration simply from the score at the end of the game. We also have fanatics who appreciate the “development” of a team. Unfortunately, at this time this team’s development is much more like “underdevelopment” or a construction project where the contractors skipped out for a couple of months aftre being paid. This makes Fanatics (and homeowners) very frustrated, pissed and impatient. Still there is no need to toss analysis in favor of hysteria no matter how many years one has league pass.
In my not so humble opinion, there is still a very good team here. As before, I question Zeke’s ability to figure it out. Admittedly last year he had a little help when the brawl cut his rotation to eight. Although he has used various lineups, he is clearly not analyzing the anatomy of the blowouts. He insists on starting ZBO, QRICH and CURRY WITH JONES AND CRAWFORD. This is exhibit A which proves Mr. Knix is right about the lack of a defensive philosophy and strategy. But that alone does not make this team bad — this team is bad because of chemistry, starting with the relationship between Stephon and Isiah. Pick one. Blame one. That is where the problem starts and permeates the rest of the team.
The problems have been identified by members of this blog before: Eddie can be an offensive force. As TMAN pointed out he is out of shape. He cannot run with Philly, Phoenix, Golden State, Charlotte or any other uptempo team for long stretches. He can’t do it. Eddie wants to play defense, but he is mentally soft, a nice guy but soft. The fans cheered after he blocked a shot and he tried it in subsequent games because the fans cheered. Still, no internal motivation. He is still a high school kid on the court. Unbelievable, but true. Still Eddie can be very useful, because he does have NBA talent. It’s about match-ups. Not starting, but match-ups.
Stephon is just at a point in his life where he needs to make very important decisions about the direction of his life. Everyone who gets to live into their thirties will come to this point. It is thepart of the life cycle that all of our believes are challenged and the consequences of our actions, hidden and apparent, are revealed to us. This time is probably the greatest test of his character he will ever face. Hopefully, he, his family and friends have more confidence than we do that he can overcome the challenges within and without. This is such a tough time to be part of a group especially when you are truly a loner. He certainly needs God now, especially since God won’t trade him.
Statesman is right that the Knicks can certainly use his skills; but his skills are useful only if he is mentally right. African identified for us a long time ago that Stephon was not ready for this season. African could not have known the depth of his statement at the time, but Stephon was not ready for the challenges ahead. He is not ready now. Neither I nor his teammates can tell you when he will be ready, but I can guess that it will take more than 50 games for them to be ready to play with him.
ZBO and Eddie can play together, just not against every team. It’s all about matchups. BARF has pointed out time after time that we are not good against up-tempo teams like Phoenix, Golden State and Philadelphia. Now add Charlotte. (Kidd plays old and NJ is no longer up-tempo). Eddie cannot run with these teams and when he is out, we are too small to outrebound these teams. ZBO and Lee are our top rebounders, but they rely on positioning and uptempo takes them out of position and wears them down. Lee can barely jump after 15 minutes against these teams and with the likes of Okafor, Stoudemire and Dalembert, he looks like he is shooting a SWAT commercial. Hence, high percentage shots and plenty of second chances for the opposition. Zeke needs to get off that starting lineup fast and put in some more height and athleticism. WTF, play Jeffries, Chandler or Balkman against these guys. Why not? (LA is evidence of this).
Crawford has proven that he can lead and start. Hell, he can play the whole game. No he does not have the talent of Starbury to command fouls at the end of the game, but he can unite his team. Not tear it apart.
(I wrote that before the Laker game and I stand by it although he was Crawful in the first half, but he was not the reason we had a killer DDD around our Knickerbocker necks. On the court, the DDDs start with Curry who should not be starting at this time).
(I also see that most everyone is starting to come around to the realization that Isiah doesn’t act like he has a clue. He is adhering to old school principles about player management that don’t work here. He cannot get the production he wants from the starting line-up he puts on the floor. Adding Steph would make it worse. He has got to learn to play matchups and to do so in a timely fashion.)
The Bottom line is that there is a good team in the New York Knick locker room — a team even better than last year, but Isiah has failed miserably at being flexible and smart enough to bring it out. He still has time, but I totally understand taking out one’s emotional investment into Zeke at this time. He refuses to recognize the obvious until it is too late.
By Lives In New Jersey, Loves New York on Dec 23, 2007
good comeback. bad pass by lee. i think isiah had the right idea going to nate for the tie, but unfortunately when you inbound the ball to the shortest guy on the floor there is an high chance that a big-eared chump is going to steal the pass.
good effort by crawford in the second half.
don’t know if i’m desensitized to losing, but this one doesn’t sting as much as the charlotte game did.
isiah promised lineup changes, where are they?
kobe will be kobe. for a guy that absolutely does not want to play for the knicks he sure does enjoy playing in the garden. perhaps he has THAT in common with Jordan, if nothing else?
By knicksdefense on Dec 23, 2007
Nice analysis Lives.
let’s see whether Thomas comes through on his statement to make lineup changes.
Agree with teh gist of your essay about styles making fights.
That is and has been why the Knicks are losing… b/c Thomas hasn’t gotten a clue on adapting to the circumstances as they evolve and present themselves instead of adhering to a sense of lineup/player loyalty that has dug us a hole deeper than we might be able to get out of.
Happy Holidays fellas.
I’m Out!
By Black and Blue on Dec 23, 2007
Once again, the Knicks outscored the opponent in the 2nd half and could not erase deficit allowed in the 1st half. Kobe was undeniably unstoppable. But the Knicks must play all four quarters with the same intensity. Q and Jeffries combined for a total of 5 points; they must attain a small forward who can put up better numbers or at least hold down opponent’s small forward. Neither Balkman nor Chandler receieved
any court time. How much longer can Zeke let the small forward issue go unattended. Either make a trade or start playing Chandler.
By Post - up Prince on Dec 23, 2007
If you can play tough for a half, you can play tough for a whole.That’s what they pay you the big bucks for.Figure it out, players and coaches!No sympathy here unless you want to exchange paychecks.These guys need to watch some film(video?) of Knick and Piston historical winning players and teams.They need a clue.They seem to have the wrong role models.MJ stated that the problem with the games today is players are paid according to their potential rather than their performance.Who’s to blame for that?Would Eddie Curry, Steph, Crawford, etc. be getting the same money based on their past performance as they receive now?Don’t think they’d be in the same shape, giving the same effort and attitude if they really needed the money.Oh yeah, a game film to definitely watch was, I think, the opening game of the 1967 season when Willis Reed got into a thing with NYC born and bred player, Rudy LaRusso, Madison HS.A utility player, John Block, an appropriate name since he got his jaw broken,grabbed Reed from behind.Reed lost it and beat up most of the LA team, including LaRusso, broken nose,Mel Counts, a seven footer,and Daryl Imhoff, the starting center.By the way,Jerry West had his nose broken many times, but never in a fight.That never happened to the logo.He didn’t roll like that.In fact, he rarely, if ever, received even a technical foul.The Captain, Reed,did not like losing, ask sometimes target,Clyde, but he also lost his share before Debusherre came from Detroit.All is not lost if we play defense for four quarters, not two.Everyone may not love you for your choices,but they need to respect you first.Remember Holzman was fired at one point too.He wouldn’t have won many popularity contests.You do what you have to for the good of the team.Anyway,LGK, win or lose!
And everyone, Happy Holiday and a happier New Year to ALL!
By Tman on Dec 23, 2007
I agree Maestro…but if we include Z Bo instead of Curry then we have to take
other players out of our deal because Zach makes over 13 million a year compared
to Curry’s 8 or 9 million.
When you change the salaries you change the deals.
However, I do agree that maybe we would send Zach instead so Kobe and Eddy can develop
together. That makes us kind of weak on the glass though with Zach, Lee and Balkman heading
out to LA.
By DaVonn Jefferson on Dec 23, 2007
DVJ
Three core players Lee-Crawford-Z-Bo plus a throw in in return for Kobe and some other player that can get some of the bounds we’ll loose in trading Z-Bo and Lee.
Also note that if we keep Balkman, whose stock is low currently, he is still a good rebounder and with GOOD COACHING can be turned into a designated stopper.
Your the GM DVJ
Come up with some thing within the above mentioned parameters that works for both teams.
By Black and Blue on Dec 23, 2007
DVJ
How about this plus 2 protected draft picks or an unrestricted first round pick.
This way we keep Balkman.
Fred Jones is still available to play minutes while Marbury is on Bereavement leave.
We get a PF and C to take some of the sting off of loosing our best rebounders, plus Balkman, as mentioned before, is still here to do some rebounding and defending.
By Black and Blue on Dec 23, 2007
DVJ
Last point
By keeping Balkman, and still having the Scholars expiring contract, we have two pieces we can use to make a follow up trade for Artest this season. Who you must agree will be more likely to want to come to NY when he knows the Mamba is in town.
Feedback DVJ Feedback?
By Black and Blue on Dec 23, 2007
Perfect Black and Blue!!
You can’t come up with a trade better than that.
However there is one problem.
When Kobe gets traded….he will more than likely sign an extension in the
23-25 million a year range. In other words more players would have to be
involved unless we can throw in some kind of cash considerations.
Don’t forget we also have the 2.5 million dollar trade exception from Frye.
By DaVonn Jefferson on Dec 23, 2007
DVJ
I hear you regarding Kobe resigning at a higher rate.
If it is in the 23 million dollar a year range we use Channing Frye’s $2,325,000 to cover that ground.
If Kobe is looking for a resigning deal in the range of $25,000,000.00 per year then we throw in Fred Jones.
How’s that sound?
By Black and Blue on Dec 23, 2007
I meant Fred Jones plus Frye’s trade exception.
By Black and Blue on Dec 23, 2007
That would do it.
The Lakers would not be able to get a better deal than that from Chicago.
Anybody here disagree with this trade proposal?
I’m glad Isiah came out after the game and said he’s going to change the
starting line up.
It’s about time he woke up.
By DaVonn Jefferson on Dec 23, 2007
DVJ
I know you are just bloggin’,but it does not seem like the Lakers will dael him now.
But, I would think the Laker would try to unload the fat contract of Kwame Brown,who doesn’t play or is hurt.
You may have to start like this.
Defenders,
I’ll take the blame for this lost,”This one’s on me”(heard that somewhere)
I can’t figure out what color Knicks jersey to wear,what side of the sofa or which tv (high def or not) will give the Knicks more luck. I’m sorry I have failed you. “this one’s on me,this one’s on me”.
By D L T Knicks on Dec 23, 2007
DEE-FENDERS,
The knicks had 7 assist today. That is less then 2 a quarter. Do we blame Steph, or do we realize that the drive and dish,
or attacking the basket and making the defense collapse is needed. Steph is closer to the solution then he is the problem.
The losses are piling up w/o Steph. Do you guys STILL believe that the team is better w/o him.
BTW-N8 is a 8-10 minutes a game guy. Shoots too much, dribbles too much, and cannot pass. I must admit that he has HEART.
I am still not impressed w/ what appears to be a comeback. Opponents lose interest/concentration and toy around
w/ the knicks and then wake up at the end to win.
Some believe JChuck is always in the middle of the comebacks. I say JChuck is the reason why we have to comeback.
Zeke sees the light and states changes will be made. What took him so long? Zach in 20 minutes had 10 rebounds,
Curry in 21 minutes had 1 rebound. Bynum has more upside at this point. Curry is starting to look like Kevin Duckworth.
Don’t blame Acquirre, remember Herb is also working w/ Curry.
Finally, DVJ—Was it good for you. Will it hold you over until Kobe’s next game against the Knicks.
Peace & Blessings
By STATESMAN on Dec 23, 2007
@post 132-136 Black and Blue\DVJ,
You two are out of your fucking minds if you think you are going to get Kobe Bryant with any of that trash, let alone you do know you can’t trade back to back first rounders.
By StevieKnix on Dec 23, 2007
I’m fucking tired of this roach infestation going on here.
What happened to the days when we had African and the rest of the Defenders with their gats out on the first sign of a wolf in Knicks fans clothing.
Whether it’s “Just Blogging”
Whisful thinking or what not.
There is nothing wrong with speculating, even if the speculation is futile.
You are really nothing but a hater.
I’ve called the troll out for what s/he is Tom
The Boston fan.
The one who mentioned how much it meant to him to see the Knicks miserable.
I’ll say this one last time and I hope every defender worth his salt listens up.
DON’T FEED THE TROLLS!
That’s the only way to cure this blog cancer!
By Black and Blue on Dec 23, 2007
Stevieknix is on ignore mode until he gives us a trade better than the one we just offered.
We’re all just bloggin here…
@Statesman LOL
It’s always good to see the best player play in the Garden.
I just wish we would’ve won.
Jamal finally got going and wasn’t star struck anymore.
By DaVonn Jefferson on Dec 23, 2007
DVJ, I already told you there isn’t a trade that works right now. Kobe said it himself, it’s up to the LAkers to come up with something that he won’t reject. Stop recycling the same old shit.
By StevieKnix on Dec 23, 2007
DLT
Kwame Brown has just one year left on his contract.
He’ll be off the Laker’s pay roll.
Also turning over so many players for just two would heavily glut the Lakers roster.
Would that make sense the Lakers? I don’t think so.
Noted the following:
Can’t turn over more than 1 number one draft pick per trade.
Excellent then we use an unprotected 2008 number one draft pick to seal the Kobe deal.
Use the 2009 number one draft pick to seal the deal for Artest.
If at all possible we try to get a number two from each team in exchange.
Since Thomas is adept at finding hustle players in the 2nd round of the draft.
DVJ
Agreed
Ignore mode for me, untill a better trade is put on the table by roach.
By Black and Blue on Dec 23, 2007
OBTW
JUST BLOGGIN!
By Black and Blue on Dec 23, 2007
DVJ
Blog on!!!
Try a trade, talk about a trade,new coach,new GM,….whatever.
Nothing wrong with bloggin’,even if the action does not make sense to anyone but you.
By D L T Knicks on Dec 23, 2007
I got a trade, how about Lee, Zach and Curry to the Celtics for Garnett, Ray Allen, Rondo and Posey plus 2 future first rounders and free coffee at Starbux for a year.
By Green and White on Dec 23, 2007
I’m not worried about Artest.
In my eyes, he’s already a Knick.
It’s just a matter of when.
Now we go play in Orlando and probably lose.
I can’t wait to see what Isiah has in store for the starting 5.
He said it’ll be a new line up.
Man o man this should be interesting.
By DaVonn Jefferson on Dec 23, 2007
I wonder what Stephs status is for the next game.
Is he is Isiah’s starting 5?
I can see it as
Jones
Crawford
Jeffries or Balkman
Zach
Lee
I don’t know if Thomas has the balls to bring Jamal off the bench
after having such a good game.
By DaVonn Jefferson on Dec 23, 2007
How about:
ZBO
LEE
Collins
MArbury
Foster Brooks
By Purple and White on Dec 23, 2007
Black & Blue
Good point about LA roster’s log jam.
Was just trying to match the numbers.
If I were to trade Kobe,I have to understand.
a)I’m not getting equal value for him.
b)why not help the team’s $$$ by dealing bad contracts.
c)get as many quality players as possible.
This trade will work for those reasons other than too many bodies,and will not unload any bad contracts.
By D L T Knicks on Dec 23, 2007
I don’t think Isiah would start Balkman since he hasn’t been playing him.
Anybody know why Balkman hasn’t played?
Crawford
Jones
Jeffries
Zach
Lee
Nate
Curry
Q
Balkman
Rose
Can you imagine if Isiah started Rose?
By DaVonn Jefferson on Dec 23, 2007
Tell the truth…I would rather see Balkman go instead of Lee but
I don’t know if the Lakers would take that.
By DaVonn Jefferson on Dec 23, 2007
Zach may be in the dog house also.
Don’t be surprised if Zach doesn’t start.
How would this look
Crawford
Jones
Balkman
Jeffries
Lee
That’s a small line up but it sure is a defensive one.
Do you think Nate has earned a starting spot?
Our second unit is clearly better than our first like Knicksdefense said earlier.
By DaVonn Jefferson on Dec 23, 2007
Nate
Jamal
Q
Jeffries
Lee
or
Nate
Jamal
Jeffries
Zach
Lee
Man…Isiah has so many ways he can go here.
What’s up with the kid Chandler?
Hopefully Isiah steps all the way out the box and tries to get
this kid in the rotation.
By DaVonn Jefferson on Dec 23, 2007
DLT
That is also a sensible alternative.
Glad you noted that since Kwame Brown’s contract is not really an alatross there really isn’t as much of an inputus to get rid of it. It will just come off the Lakers roll by the end of this year.
DVJ
I agree with you in keeping Lee over Balkman.
But you have to give to get.
And in the meantime we can insert Balkman, get him some PT and let him regain confidence and at the same time shop him to a potential suitor, i.e., the Kings.
Ok this trade speculation JUST BLOGGIN is very addictive.
Check in later or tommorow.
Latez!
By Black and Blue on Dec 23, 2007
Yep
Love to see Chandler get some burn.
Same goes for Balkman. He’s a team player and a soldier, he is still supportive of the team’s rallies despite being situated on the pine.
Love Balk, set him free and let him get some confidence.
DVJ
Sometimes, it’s good to think outside the box.
By Black and Blue on Dec 23, 2007
Just caught up reading and want to say the following. Never did I say that if someones opinion doesn’t agree with mine (as stated by Jay Bee) Passionate expressions by any and all is what makes me love NY Knick, Giant and Yankee fans. Again I said the key to friendship is the ability to agree to disagree Meaning I don’t just relish exchange with those who agree with me. I relish exchanges with those who passionately disagree just as much
Also never said Komives was traded for FRazier. As stated Komives was one of the center pieces of the Dave Debuschere trade. To my recollection the Knicks key to that trade was that it allowed Willis Reed to play center instead of forward (as Bellamy was shiped out) and it allowed for more minutes for a young Walt Frazier. Also to my recollection Mike Riordan was not in the rotation like that at this point of his career. He was a guy who was put a strategic points by Holtzman to give fouls. Did not really get a run until later.
By Kevin Harewood on Dec 23, 2007
Statesman, I repeat. The team is better without Steph on the floor. First, lets talk facts so we can dispense with this Marbury dreaming. Thus far the Knicks are 5-13 with Marbury on tthe floor. A squad led by Marbury has only outscored the opponent in three of those games. In thirteen of those games Marbury’s squad has been outscored by the opposition. Per 48 minutes of playing time, the Knicks net -10.8 points with Marbury on the floor. The only players with a worse point differential while they are on the floor is Curry (-12.0). Collins is at -10.4. The Knicks best five man unit in terms of outscoring the opponent is Robinson-Craw-Balkman-Lee and Randolph. The two worst units are Marbury-Crawford-Richardson-Randolph and Curry and Robinson-Balk-Lee-Curry-Crawford.
Marbury is averaging 4 assists per game, but we both know that the Knicks are not losing because of assists. They are losing because of turnovers, fewer rebounds than opponsnts, missed layups, blown free throws and a lack of effort. Playing Marbury does not fix that.
And yes, I can blame Stephon for having a role in every loss including the Laker loss. It is his behavior or relationship with Isiah that propelled us into this funk and his spirit is still in the lockerroom. Of course, he is not the only problem, but he is definitely not the solution. I hope Isiah doesn’t see it that way. If so, then we are truly lost.
RAMBLE II
The following are my notes for “Anatony of A Blowout” which I started ½ hour before the game after I found out the starting line-up on Knicks Game Night.
Anatomy of A Blow-out
This is a tough time for Knick fans and even more difficult when Clyde starts suggesting indirectly the need to fire Isiah Thomas. Not only are we subjected to the MSM and our own doubts, but when the penultimate Knick with the killer suits starts hinting at the need for a regime change, it is a tough time in The City.
Still, as I look at the last few games, it is clear to me that the Knicks have a good team in that morass of clay. Isiah the sculptor can see it, but for many reasons, from his lack of a plan to the daily disruptions of any plan he may have had, he has been unable to shape the team.
Last year, blowouts were common, but the Knicks had energy players who changed the tempo of the game on both ends and often got the Knicks back into the games to the delight of the home crowd. But something is missing this year and I suggest it starts with the teams “stars” Zeke, Curry and Marbury.
Funny, I heard someone laugh and say, “How you blame Marbury for the 24 point blowout” today. I respond very, very easily, but let’s start with Curry.
Eddie Curry
For the Knicks, each blowout begins in their head. No, I cannot read their minds, but they telegraph the mental messages with their body language and their activity on the court. They play with the full expectation that a DDD is inevitable and perhaps irreversible.
The blowout, on the court, begins with Eddie Curry because he remains Isiah’s first option. Isiah wants to go inside, which is a great idea to slow down the pace and to feature a man who can overpower most players guarding him. Yet, Eddie has rarely, upon my observation scored on his very first time down the court. Rarely. Check it and get back to me. I don’t ever remember him scoring the first two times down the floor.
And there begins the blow-out. Curry’s confidence is so low that he misses his first two free throws and he begins to doubt himself and see the game falling apart again. This is confirmed and exacerbated by the onslaught of boos. Not encouragement, but boos. And there goes the crowd becoming the sixth man for the Lakers.
(Yes, blame the crowd. Their asses need to take responsibility too. Surely, the purpose of their boos is not to encourage but to disparage and show disapproval. Any idiot knows that Curry is ultra-sensitive with little backbone. If you want the team to win and Isiah refuses to sit him as he should then at the start of games you should be yelling “Curry, Curry, Curry.” Can’t you see that he is like the skinny girl who sees herself as the fat kid in elementary school with braces. She will always be the fat girl. Or a better analogy might be the tall man who is still walking with slumped shoulders because he was teased for being a big kid. Apparently, the boos are
Bottom line is that Curry does not have a starter’s mindset. Take the home crowd out of the game, like Curry takes himself. Sit him and bring him off the bench. SIT CURRY. Sit Curry because he needs further confirmation (not boos) that he is at the lowest point in his career from his coach. If he can’t overcome a benching by performing when he receives those minutes as a blessing, not an entitlement for being big, then he deserves to remain benched. It’s time for him to see the adversity he apparently hasn’t internally recognized or acknowledged.
In this blowout, Curry misses his free throws. Next, Curry fumbles passes in the paint.
On the other end Curry tries to show on the pick and roll. Great job, but he still fails to jump for rebounds and when he jumps to block Bynum’s shot, his hands are at his side. Unbelieveable. Not humanly possible to jump to block with your arms side-locked, is it?.
Then he gets his shot blocked by a high schooler and forget that neither he nor ZBO can adjust to the fact that refs refuse to call all of the contact they receive. But it doesn’t really matter if you are going to miss your free throws.
Eventually, Curry settles down, but the lead grows because he doesn’t rebound and can’t score. He gets replaced by a midget who outperforms him, even on the boards.
Isiah
The blow-out actually started when Zeke, like a retard, inks in the same starting five he started in the other blowouts except there was no Stephon Marbury to push around.
Can I buy a clue for you Zeke. That lineup does not start the game well defensively. You have got to make a choice and one of your big guys must sit. Start your games with energy. I would sit Curry and start Jeffries until you get beaten on the inside. At least you give your team a chance to stop the other team after the Knicks miss.
(I see Zeke has finally accepted the folly of his ways. We’ll see. Who will he sit? What will his new starting lineup be. Orlando is very beatable, but he has no one to stop Howard from muscling in the middle. This is a game that calls for Curry to stop the easy baskets from under neath. What will his starting lineup be?
I pick Crawford, Jones, Lee, Qrich and Jeffries. We give up a lot in the middle, but we do better early if we let Howard and Lee battle under the offensive boards. I suggest we focus on stopping their guards and Lewis at the tre and surrender Howard’s second chance points for the beginning of the game. More thoughts later. )
By Lives In New Jersey, Loves New York on Dec 23, 2007
IMHO, Statesman is right about Steph. Lives, i believe that your analysis is flawed because of a correlation of Steph COMBINED with a starting unit that cannot compete. it makes his involvement look bad where it has more to do with a 5 man unit that cannot play defense.
The fact is when Steph is not in the game we actually DON’T RUN ANY PLAYS!!! Can Crawford take his man off the dribble IS NOT A PLAY! Can Nate take his man off the dribble IS NOT A PLAY! Dumping it in to Randolph or Curry and standing around IS NOT A PLAY! When Steph is in the game the ball is far more likely to move around the perimeter. Such activity is far more important than merely 2 points. It actually makes the defen