Very encouraging signs last night. I’m serious, I’m looking beyond the win-loss aspect of the game. Coach Thomas was experimenting with the lineup, exactly what we had been hoping for, and Jared Jeffries is showing he can contribute in Quentin Richardson’s absence (get well soon Q) there was even a Wilson Chandler sighting! Looks to me like the kid can play, hope he gets more PT to prove it. Fred, Zach and Jamal took most of the shots and as a result scored most of the points. Despite Fred and Jamal both playing over 40 minutes, the starting backcourt only totaled two turnovers. That is a world of improvement in itself. Improved stability and simplicity should be what the knicks strive for with each game.
The defense still sucks, but at least we are starting to cut down on the turnovers. The Knicks got blocked 15 times and yet only blocked 2 shots the whole game. How did Hinrich have three blocks?
Mardy still can’t shoot, but at least he’s getting PT. Nothing worse for these young players than rotting on the bench. And with Mardy, you know he’s still going to run the offense and make plays defensively, despite not being a factor when it comes to scoring the ball. A lot of these guys just need time coming back from injuries. I don’t think Lee is 100% himself yet either, nor is Q or Jeffries.
Two best shots of the night for me were the Jeffries three pointer and the high-arching shot Zach hit near the end of the fourth from far out on Ben Wallace. Zach has range. Hopefully Balk or Lee is in the game to clean up the long rebound just in case. Best defensive play was Balk’s block at the top of the key in the fourth quarter. Was it me or was that dunk by chandler something the team sorely needs? We need some above the rim players in the game. Our PF and C do not often operate in that stratosphere.
Looking forward to tonight’s game against the nets at the garden. If you remember in the preseason match against the Nets on October 26th, Jeffries was dominating the first five minutes of the game before he went down with the injury (was it Richard Jefferson that he banged knees with?), so hopefully tonight he can avoid the injury but continue the recent improved play. Nets have their three-headed monster back in terms of being healthy, so it should be a good one.
It is sad what is happening to Eddy Curry. He’s one of the nicest kids on the team, and the Randolph trade basically put him in a position to fail. Thanks Glen Grunwald. The way I see it, at the NBA talent level, you could give almost anyone 20 shots a game and they’ll average close to 20 points–if not more. What’s more important is this: at the end of the game, is your team is in a position to win? I’ve heard it said recently that good teams find a way to win and bad teams find a way to lose. This was another game we let slip away, but we can still become a good team with nearly 60 games left in the season.
Free Wilson Chandler!
Free Renaldo Balkman!
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Google Alert – new york knicks Mon 12/17/2007 1:56 AM
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Video: New York Knick Jamal Crawford signs autographs for charity
Indiana Pacers vs New York Knicks Game Thread (12/17)
Curry ends scoring slump, Knicks end 5-game skid by beating Nets
Curry breaks out of slump as Knicks beat Nets
Last Night’s Action: The Knicks Are Ok (Tonight)
Lunacy. People like this don’t want this team to win. They want them to lose so they can keep teasing them. To keep the Knicks is profitable these days. If the Knicks were winning, what would these clowns write? I wonder. Greenberg’s a little pencilneck who peed his pants, never got the girl, used to get locked in his own locker and now is getting back at the jocks.
http://www.nypost.com/seven/12132007/sports/knicks/only_thing_worse_would_be_zeke_winning_946367.htm?page=2
Not true about muffling the writers’ voices. Most of the writers are a bunch of mumblers when it comes to asking their questions. The last few interviews were done behind the interviewing table. If the reporters want to be heard on camera, they need to stop mumbling and being scared. Usually they’re all in Isiah’s face with their microphones right up on him. I wouldn’t want that. Too many of them were using that venue, On Demand, to show that they’re “TV ready”. Hahny is probably first on that list. He would try to squeeze his big head in the camera shot to get some airtime.
Their beat just got worse. Now they have to show respect, raise their hands like little kids (or the Washington, DC political press corps) and hope they get called on. This has got to be pissing them off. Act like kids, get treated like kids.
Trane
Never said I was a better fan than you. All I said was that I’m not the type of fan to whish the teams demise b/c of the climate permeating the Garden these days.
Nor did I specifically make reference to the Knicks making any specific sort of deep run into the playoffs. But if that were to happen it would be great.
Perhaps you would hope they get swept by double digit losses?
Reality over fantasy.
The NBA season is only about a quarter ways throuhg. Many of the teams in the east are also below 500. There are close to 60 games remaining in the Knicks regular season. Marbury is returning from bereavment leave, after another personal loss and absence has taken from the teams depth, this time in the gaurd rotation. Jerome James, for all his folly, is a much more aggresive player than Curry defensively will return.
I still think the Knicks have a shot a playoff spot that’s my opinion, and I’ll stand by it.
But I’ll tell you what. When the Knicks are clearly out of the playoff picture, e.g., when the teams playoff’s hope late in the season would rest on a double digit winning streak, then I’ll retract my pro-Knick enthusiasm.
Then off course you are free to speculate along with the rest of the crew which draft pick would likely improve the team’s long term fortunes.
With regard to your take how the rest of the Knicks’ season should or could go… Jay Bee does say it best when he says:
“You are still talking in opinions. With opinions: reality is relative, truth is relative, fantasy is relative. That type of argument works well with the sheep[] in the Fixer nation, but elicits yawns from the Defender gallery.”
The Knicks are not yet mathmetically eliminated fromt he playoffs, nor are they a double digit late season winning streak out of the playoff picture. So again you may proceed with your take when either of the two events occurrs.
Also if you read this blog you’ll know that many of the bloggers here have their reservations of the player rotattion and starting lineup. You’ll even be aware of a tendency here to get to see more of the youger player’s like Balkman, Chandler, Morris etc. So I don’t think we have any bones of contention with your suggestion that the youth on the team should get more burn. Moreover, if and when the season is officially lost, Thomas, or whomever mans the coaching spot at that time would do well to play the young guys plenty of minutes.
I’m pretty much tired of nitpicking over our different versions of fandom.
I know what kind of fan I am.
A Diehard, who cannot and will not wish this team nor it’s players the a demise made all the more worse by the climate in NY sportscoverage and sheepish fandom.
If it amuses you to have a different take, you’re welcome to have your opinion.
Just understand that this knicks blog is not the site for that sort of negativity.
OBTW
Apology Re Mark accepted, at least from this blogger.
Jay Bee:
Read that Post article and I find the article repulsive, since the authro appears to promote the very opinion that our neighbor Trane promotes. The tenure of his article is of course more nakedly hostile.
THe following part is what really burns me of course.
“Anybody with a basketball, even Luke Ridnour, is going right through the Knicks right now. And good, because it increases the chances they will continue to fail miserably….
So last night, the first of six straight games against teams with losing records, may have gone a ways to alleviating a smart Knick fan’s worst fear, that this team will inevitably start to play better, any kind of better, fueling Dolan’s delusion that a nucleus of a contender is being formed.
For the long-term good of the franchise, that would be a far worst-case scenario than even what we’ve seen so far.”
Now the officially MSM call is to cheer for the team and it’s players lack of success.
Cheering the teams demise is equivalent to whishing it’s players ill.
Enough said!
The Pacers former perrenial All Star, Jermaine Oneal, has Isiah’s back, and puts the owners on the teams players for the current poor play.
Tell me something, guys. How is the NY Post considered down there? Is it about on the same level as the NYT? Is it usually viewed as serious journalism? If it is, then I understand your being upset and tracking their writings. If it’s considered more second-rate stuff, stuff for people who enjoy titillation far more than objectivity, then why bother get yourselves all stoked up reading it? To me it sounds like the Post is the BooBird paper of record. Not worth following it. It’s speaking to a specific audience, not you. If the Times or other such papers get into that stuff, that’ the time to bang the gong. Ya feel me?
Good morning defenders.
Good win saturday. I was very busy this weekend so I didn’t get to see either game. I’m glad to see that the Knicks finally won a game w/ an all out effort against the Nets.
I can see that some of you think that we may have turned a corner by winning in Joisey. Let’s not get ahead of ourselves gentlemen. It’s only one win. A solid win but only one win nonetheless. If the Knicks can string together a winning streak, we can talk about them turning a corner. You guys are jumping the gun.
Chuck,
The post in the tabloid among the NY papers. Not good for real news but fun for speculation and rumors.
Today’s New York Times on line (front page photo) has an objective story about Ron Artest and his focus on keeping his priorities straight: http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/17/sports/basketball/17artest.html
From Sam Smith of the Chi-Towns Tribune,
There is still talk that Miami is trying to use Jason Williams and Ricky Davis’s
expiring contracts to get Mike Bibby and Ron Artest from the Kings!
If that’s the case then Zeke needs to step in and play some defense!
Now hear this Defenders: I have been sent a messeage that there is a boycott planned for the 12/30 game at MSG!!!! These pessimist/realist “Knicks fans” (haters)want a change.I live in Florida but if I was in the area I would protest the protesters!!! They all want change for the sake of change in my book!! They think anybody could change this franchise for the better.And as we all know they are poisoned by MSM.These people wouldn’t know basketball if it bent them over and ………!!!!!!
Peacman
Checked out that Sam Smith article about the Heat trying to deal for Artest and Bibby from chicagosports.com.
Heat forecast
“Is it the battle for the No. 1 pick as the teams with the league’s worst records meet Monday night? That would be Minnesota and Miami.
Yep, Shaquille O’Neal and Dwyane Wade’s Heat is still barreling downhill. Wade had his second consecutive eight-turnover game in Saturday’s loss to Indiana, and O’Neal was invisible again with seven shots. Despite O’Neal complaining about his lack of shots all season, coach Pat Riley told Florida media last week, “If one player in that locker room complains about shots, they should be crucified.”
Quite the cross to bear. Though Wade publicly denied being upset with personnel moves, he did mention the loss of shooters like Jason Kapono, James Posey and Eddie Jones. “Now you don’t have the same shooters, known shooters,” Wade said. “Of course the defense is going to make an adjustment.”
Over the summer Riley brought in Penny Hardaway, cut last week, and Smush Parker, who is in legal trouble and will be traded or released. Maybe Riley finally will get his point guard in the 2008 draft. Should Miami give up the season and go for that? After all, this is now about trying to make Wade happy enough not to opt out after the 2009-10 season.
There’s still talk, though, that Miami is trying to use the expiring contracts of Jason Williams and Ricky Davis to put together a deal for Mike Bibby and Ron Artest.”
I recall some bloggers here using the pretty trade machine from ESPN to propose some trade scenarious that would help us land Artest, and perhaps Bibby also.
Does anyone here have some trade proposals?
@Peaceman #159
Zeke could offer Lee or Balkman to get this done real quick.
George M.:
I second that emotion!
Sounds like a good time to get the Defenders together.
Any suggestions?
O & B
Here is one.
And a bigger on.
Or with “A HREF=”http://games.espn.go.com/nba/features/traderesult?players=25~61~2986~509&teams=18~18~23~23&te=&cash=”> Balkman
Sorry
Or with Balkman
Or without Steph
Sorry
without Steph
So which one do you guys like?
DLT,
I like all those proposals! I love LEE and TAZ, but right now Artest is the Best fit
with Curry and Zach in the Post! Artest would cover up a lot of Currys weak points!
That deep post line up is a match up hell for even Boston, as Artest can Glove Pierce!
We may have to give up either Taz or Lee as we must look to get better with our minds
and waive our sentimental feelings. This is a business, and a lot of decisions made are
strictly bussiness! Pull the trigger Zeke, on any of those trades that DLT posted above!
Peace
I personally think the trades without Steph will have a better chance.Steph’s stock is low now.He will be a great expiring contract next year. I don’t think no team will touch him now.
Steph can help this team if thats what HE really wants to do!
There are few life changing events on Character, but losing your DAD or MOM is the exception.
I believe we will see a Steph that can help this team. We may see Marbury at his best!
I always wanted to see Steph play well,since he was the very first piece the Zeke bought to the team.Zeke will have to again think about who is going to captain this ship for this year,and if Zeke is lucky, for the years ahead. It will be hard NOT to trade Steph next year.Every team would love to take 21 million off their cap for the 2009 free agents.
I agree with Peaceman.
Either trade which will help us land Artest would go long way towards improving this team’s current plight.
Currently it seems that Lee’s stock may look better b/c he appears to be working on an offensive game to compliment his rebounding. For example he is hitting the mid range jumper of square ups in the post, and he also seems to have developed some sound post moves from Mark Aguire. This might make him the Kings first option in a potential deal for Artest. The slight bone of contention with giving up Lee is that trading him makes our front line between the 4 and 5 spot thinner. We still don’t know what Morris has to offer, and James rehabbing and staying healthy are still issues to consider.
Balkman on the other hand, due to a combination of a lack of playing time and what appears to be close to no development on the offensive end will likely be the lesser option should the Kings start trade talks with the Knicks. I love Taz, his hustle, enthusiam, athleticsm and believe more of his presence is sorely needed on this currently moribund Knicks team but it is a diservice to him to be part of a logjam at the 3 where his playingtime is effected which compromises his chances at developing furhter. To that end I think Balkman would be best served by heading west. Although You guys know very well that I’ll miss Taz. (No Homo!)
DLT
Do you think an alternative scenario could emerge where we neither have to give up Taz nor Lee but surrender other players who are logged jammed and a first round draft pick. Is this idea cockamaney? Or would it fly with you and the other defenders.
OBTW seems like the link to a trade w/o Marbury, shows the exact same trade as the one with him.
Berman is trying to stir up controversy between IT and Steph just as Steph is coming back from grieving. Berman is such a low life. I wonder how such people even find the conscience to get up and go to work everyday.
On the proposed trade, I don’t think we should give up a lot for Ron since he will be a free agent at the end of the season. We can give up maybe Balk or Lee but not 4 players, that will shake up consistency again.
STOP MIKE LUPICA,
Has a good article, with many senarios, I like the one stateing a trade of Lee, Rose and recieveing back
Artest and a “protected #1.” Check it out!
O & B
This trade is another option. We will have to take back a bad contract in return and give up some young talent and an expiring contract. The Kings want Lee and/or Balk. Also O&B with Artest on board, there will be fight for minutes with Artest/Lee/Balk, they all can play 2 or 3 positions.
Jazz
The Red Sox upped the anti to stifle the Yankee’s chances of landing the Ace Pitcher from Minnesota, whose name currently eludes me.
Why not stifle any Heat chances of obtaining Ron Artest by playing the same kind of hard ball.
Artest has peeps in NY but he doesn’t have a no trade clause.
Jazz,
People keep saying that we can get Artest for free next season!!!!!!
Do you really believe the Kings will let him walk for Zero comp????
He will be traded this year! I just hope it’s to us!
DLT
Freddy Jones has become a valuable utility player at the gaurd spot. In addition, I’d still like to see what we have in the rookie Wilson Chandler.
So I guesse it’s either Lee or Balkman.
I see your’e point regarding David Lee. Also with his improved play at the offensive side his trade stock is back up.
Peaceman
Hook us up with the link on that article from Stop Mike Lupica.
ABP
Calling
African
Anti NYMSM
MODI
Your contributions are sorely missed.
O&B
That article is the first one when you hit the Blog roll titled Stop Mike Lupica
on KnicksD’s Blog roll!
Peace, O&B,
I get your point. I just don’t see Steph and Lee for Ron and Bibby as working. SAC will want more. Maybe both Lee and Balk plus Steph. While this may look good on paper, I don’t think it will be wise long term to give up both of these guys. But I won’t complain if that is what it takes to get Ron.
As i pointed out in the last thread, Artest IS NOT A FREE AGENT AFTER THIS SEASON!
Artest & Bibby as a package doesn’t work – they are not simpatico.
Folly, i know we’re not writing essays up in hurr, and everyone makes typos now & again. i don’t care about that stuff, but the constant your/you’re “typos” are hard to take.
Then there’s straight-up ignorance, like using “owners” instead of “onus” and “dew” instead of “due”. When i see Knick fans use lines like “Gotta give credit where credit is dew” and “the owners on the teams players for the current poor play” – i cringe. It’s the same basic reason why i cringe when i see Eddy Curry look at a potential rebound instead of jumping and grabbing it….
Anything worth doing is worth doing right.
Imagine Charles, if your auto mechanic scoffed at your concerns about a new engine noise after a repair, claiming “Bitch, you ain’t racin’ in the Indy 500 is you?”
Or your wife setting out some burnt chicken, saying “Charles, it’s not like the Pope is coming over for dinner tonight!”
i think the Lee/Malik for Artest deal makes the most sense for both sides, unless Miami is willing to up the ante and pitch in other considerations. We might need to swallow Reef or Thomas’ contracts to get Ron-Ron here – and still give up Lee, Taz or both!
Classic Zeke moment from back in the day here! Go watch it, it’s a short video clip and worth it for the close-up of Bobby Knight’s expression alone!
http://thebiglead.com/?p=3925
Can’t say i have ever heard the term “sunt” before, LOL. =)
I still believe that the ball on an Artest trade is primarily in Ron Ron’s court. The Kings will try to trade him prior to the deadline, but the acquiring team must be sure that Artest will want to sign with that team next season. Why give up assets for a player who will only play for half a season? If Artest wants to play for Isiah, then the Knicks will have an advantage, and probably give up Taz and J. Rose– who has a $13 million expiring contract at the end of this season–to make the deal work.
That Greenberg article was disgusting. I am disquieted by the “MSM consipracy theorists” in here, because largely I think the so-called “MSM” doesn’t exist. In fact, it is the downright desperation to differentiate yourself from the pack that largely leads to the half-truths and outright hostility that plagues news stories on the Knicks – or news stories on Iraq, the stock market, the 2008 Presidential race, etc etc etc.
But this whole “Isiah lost the locker room when he ignored the players voting Steph to not play after he left the team” story really irks me, because it is a media-driven story. I have not heard one single player go on the record to voice their displeasure over this. Does anyone have any hard evidence that this vote even took place, much less that Isiah “lost the team” over it?
Also, i hope there is no creedence to the reports that the Knicks are going to buy out Malik’s contract – why give up a trade asset? Who cares if Malik’s feelings are hurt – for all the money he’s made in the orange and blue for doing next to nothing, my man should zip it shut and deal!
New thread guys!
Post-up, you’re a class act – and i agree that Artest has a large influence on any negotation.
But his contract doesn’t end this year, it would be a “year and a half” rental, not a “half-year rental”.
Plus, it’s Malik Rose and a $7M+ contract – Jalen is long gone to the comfy confines of Stamford to work at The Network. =)
i hope during all this stopping to smell the Roses extends to the Knicks’ college scouting department, cuz Derrick could make up for Malik & Jalen one hundred fold!
PaulNoize,
Where have you been ‘bruh? Them there was some classic posts;-) Very useful.
KFLL
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