Knicks get knocked out the box–or voluntarily step out of it
November 30, 2007 – 12:31 amThey didn’t just whoop them, the Celtics nearly doubled up on the Knicks last night, 104-59.
I can not dismiss the possibility posed to me by a fellow knick fan that the Knicks players deliberately tanked this game, because no NBA team should lose by this amount, let alone a healthy team with far and away the largest payroll in the league. The team I saw tonight, if this is how it is going to be, they’re headed straight back to the lottery just like that suburban dork Rick Kamla sarcastically remarked in the offseason Atlantic Division preview.
The ultimate dis tonight didn’t come from podunk Charles Barkley, or sworn enemy Reggie Miller, or even sour grapes Marv Albert, although each of them had their knick bashing moments on the TNT national telecast. No, the ultimate dis came when they cut to a shot from the crowd; to an older, chubby, understandably disgruntled Knicks fan who was representing with his knicks jersey. Having to sit in that hostile environment and watch that kind of a blowout, he took off his jersey and threw it towards the court in pure disgust, a gesture TNT captured with their cameras and played back to us in slow motion. Maybe that one will make youtube.
So what are you going do, Jimmy Dolan? Sit on your hands and wait for the Knicks to get better accidentally?
Looking for some nugget of wisdom on what I had just witnessed, I headed over to Knicks.com and got as far as this single sentence I’ll leave you with here:
Nate Robinson led the Knicks with 11 points.
484 Responses to “Knicks get knocked out the box–or voluntarily step out of it”
The bad news is, this is one of the worst Knicks losses ever. The good news is, this is secretly the pilot season of Real World: NBA, MTV’s latest series! They picked the biggest misfits they could find, put them on a team, and will record what happens for all posterity. The Knicks will be part of television history!
By Mike on Nov 30, 2007
We need a line up change…replace QRich with Chandler, we need some production from the small
position..QRich is klling us. We also need to get rid of Eddie Curry, he’s a one way player. He
consistently plays no defense and as we all know he doesn’t rebound…Lets give Randolph Morris
some burn at least he’ll block some shots and grab some rebounds…Why did we even bother going
through all the trouble to get him as the first college free agent, only to not play him..He
seemed OK in summer league averaging almost a double double…plus he’s only signed through this
year, so we need to see what he can offer at this level…Lastly we need to rid ourselves of
Malik Rose, the guy is an absolute joke and a waste of roster space..It’s a shame that we lost
a talented shooter such as DNice because of guys like Malik crowding the roster…We surely could
have used DNice’s shooting tonight…Anyway we could get him back..I don’t think he’s getting any
burn in Cleveland.
By Top Shotta on Nov 30, 2007
Agreed George M.
Thomas the Coach has to play GM! Rose, Lee, Chandler and a # 1 should
get us Artest. Maybe go after Bibby too! Marbury should be Cut or benched!
Maybe Knicks D is right that the team did tank this game? Is it because they want Marbury gone, even at
the expense of Thomas being gone too?
Either way this team has to make Major moves!
By Peaceman on Nov 30, 2007
To DaVonn and the defenders,
This is exactly where I was with the C’s last year so maybe this a good sign for you guys. Last
year it is was so bad that all C’s fans could do was root for was change, and then losing was a
better option than winning because of the lottery. You don’t need to stay loyal to the
individuals on this team, only the concept of the Knicks and keep pushing for positive change.
Isiah was never part of anything positive for any team since the Pistons. Your nightmare with
him is almost over, so that’s something to look forward to. Good luck and I’ll check in from
time to time hoping you guys well—-as a C’s fan I would like to have the Knicks as a real
rivalry down the road.
By Tom on Nov 30, 2007
This is the only bit that spoils your decent olive branch, tom. At the very least, as a GM, he was good for the raptors and upgrading some terrible pieces for the Knicks (considering what he started with).
The biggest advantage the celts had over the knicks is dannyboy’s buddy-buddy relationship with mchale. that’s what saved them (and ainge’s job). too bad zeke can’t get something going with dumars (dumars ain’t crazy and doesn’t have mchale’s unbelieveable job security).
zeke as coach? he’s good in some areas, but it’s hard to prove he’s that take you over the top guy. anyway, all these coaches and gms know that, really, you get hired to be fired. it’s just a matter of extending your run as long as you can.
one other note, for them dudes still crying, “we can still win 50″ the knicks would have to win 46 out of the remaining 68 (.676 clip) and .500 ball the rest of the way through gets them 38 wins on the season.
insert your keys, turn clockwise, flip up the clear plasic case and PUSH THAT PANIC BUTTON.
By Charles Follymacher on Nov 30, 2007
Charles,
I believe we had this debate before the season with neither of us conceding, so I believe we agreed to disagree which is fine. These points aren’t facts, just opinions. I forgot he was the first GM for Toronto and that was hard to gauge his success in an initial franchise but at least he didn’t kill that one before it got out of the box like he did with Vancouver and he did draft McGrady.
I agree with the coaching comments you mentioned, but the McHale thing with Ainge you don’t know for sure, that was a good move by McHale, look what Big Al is doing, he was never going to get the players in Minnesota around Garnett. Besides, I’d be pissed if Danny didn’t take advantage of working with his network. I mean, are you at fault if you want to go to a Metallica concert and the only to get a great ticket is to call your buddy at Tickemaster. Are you telling me your not taking advantage of those kind of favors. The C’s have a lot of brass in the NBA because their level of professional integrity and performance history. Other orgs want a part of that heritage to spread to their teams. The Pistons won 2 champ rings, but they weren’t particurarly liked in the league except Dumars and Isiah has not taken advantage of that relationship if there is one there. That’s what Dolan needs to figure out, get Bradley, Frazier, Reed involved more to use to network across the league. That may not be possible and or strong enough to make an impact but that’s Dolan job to figure out. That is where the C’s hold a long term advantage, but they earned that.
Peace, Tom
By Tom on Nov 30, 2007
Wow!!!
M’lady made plans last night, so I missed the game. Was it really as bad as the score? Wow!!
I did have a chance to read the thread. Question, has the Blog’s GM quit or is he BOYCOTTING
until KOBE arrives? Steady, O&B,JayB,aNTI-way to stay strong in face of adversity. Team has
too many passive(nice) guys. Time for ROTATION changes. Guys came to camp feeling “ANOINTED”.
JChuck-”I deserved to start”, Curry-”I am an Allstar”,Q “We will make the Playoffs”,
Steph-FILL IN THE BLANK_______. DVJ(GM)-”This team will win 57 Games”. Biggest Mistake you can make
in Life is BELIEVING YOUR OWN BULLSHYT. Winning requires more then just showing up. Clock is ticking
on Zeke. If you gotta go, go out w/ a bang. SIT SOME AZZES DOWN. Q & JChuck(never a starter ), and get
the young guys who will go all out and keep their mouth shut. 2-Games and Q talking SMACK.!!
Baby Shaq should be put on notice, No Rebound, No DEE,= No Minutes.
KNEE-DEEP, You have not lost a Step
Peace & Blessings
By STATESMAN on Nov 30, 2007
My Knicks fell to a Boston Celtics team at the top of their game last night; they were quick, and the game flowed easily for them. Knicks have not played well in Boston this year, embarrassed by double digit losses in the two games played there….. but last nights’ game was a blur and must now be forgotten…. we were not prepared for such an onslaught so fast and so early. I thought the game was lost in the first five minutes of the first quarter, our shots just didn’t fall for us, we shot air balls, the basketball rimmed out and our opponent took full advantage. At first we tried to be patient, but were stunned by what was happening, we were hurting; We lost our confidence, didn’t communicate on defense, pass the basketball or spread the floor effectively, we didn’t play as a team.
By Syd on Nov 30, 2007
An obtuse yet interesting take from CelticsBlog.com:
What else can you really say about last night. It was a joke. Just like the Knicks won’t watch tape of that game, the Celtics won’t either. There’s just nothing to learn from it except “don’t bring in overpaid babies as players and if you do, don’t lose the respect of those overpaid babies.”
Here’s my solution for the Knicks: Contract the team, move the Sonics to New York, and change the name to the “Knicks” (sort of like the Cleveland Browns situation a few years back). Dolan and Zeke go away and Durant gets to play in the biggest market in the world. This is David Sterns dream scenario. Make it happen.
LOL, Tom
By Tom on Nov 30, 2007
The real news of this game won’t be how they lost yesterday, but how they respond today and who will get playing time tonight. Q probably won’t be making more predictions anytime soon. I love that he made it, but you gotta back that shi+ up and your boys should have your back. Q is not really a leader on this team and leadership is an issue with this team. While all the pieces have game, we lack leadership. I thought it was going to be Curry, and it still may be, but nobody is going to follow Curry as soft as he’s playing.
Rose who is only here for his leadership and guidance of the young guys showed me nothing last night. Jay Bee the GM would’ve cut him on the spot. Find your own way home chump. All in all it boils down to tonight. The Bucks know that if they win tonight they’ll be all over the nationwide newspapers. So who’s going to step up for me? Don’t know, but I can’t wait to find out.
Jay Bee the Eternal Optimist
By Jay Bee on Nov 30, 2007
This was another perplexing game. I thought Knicks came out playing hard and defending well but just couldn’t hit none of their shots and I mean point blank shots. It was like that game where they missed 17 in a row. Zach and Curry couldn’t hit anything and the rest of the team followed suit. I kept hoping they snap out of it and start making shots but they couldn’t and it was over by half time. I didn’t see nobody quitting until they were down by 35. It was bench vs bench in 2nd half mostly. This was a crazy game but its just one game.
By rush on Nov 30, 2007
I could care less about what Stern wants. Stern is gay. The city of Boston, mostly gay. Rooting against your team, gay. Right now, for better or worse, everybody’s talking about the Knicks. Durant sux. Period. He’s like 150 lbs. and weak. He looks like my 9 year old with height. They won’t win 20 games this year. They won’t win next year either. There will be no point in the next 4 to 6 years at least that the Sonics will win more games than the Knicks. As a franchise, do you realize that the Knicks are still the most valuable and the most profitable franchise right now? Of course you don’t because you get your information from the pigs that write the papers. Last night’s loss looked bad last night, but I look at how they will respond tonight. Tom you’re having fun right now, but come see us at playoff time when your big three are looking old and tired. Father Time is coming for them bastaaaaads. You think the Knicks are a joke, but the joke will be on you Jack. You who mortgaged your future for a chance to save Danny Boy’s job. They play well now, but it won’t last. No rings and in two years you’ll be right back in the lottery. Take your olive branch and shove it up your wideopen Boston Hawba.
By Jay Bee on Nov 30, 2007
Observations from last night.
The problem begins and ends with Crawford.
I don’t know why, but Zeke is going out on a limb to hide Crawford’s defensive deficiencies.
Trying to hide Craw behind Rondo created this mess.
Rondo scored(I think) eight of the first ten Boston points. He’s supposed to be the weak link.
That allowed KG to just concentrate on stopping Zach. KG didn’t even have to score.
Having Craw guard Rondo, eliminated one of our few advantages in the starting line-up.
If we started a legit three with Q at the two, Marbury would have the advantage on Rondo, Q would nullify Allen, the legit three would reduce the mismatch at the three spot, KG would have to play both ways, and get tired and Curry would or should have an advantage on Perkins.
What Zeke did with these parings negated the advantage of Marbury on Rondo, created mismatches for Marbury and Q, and allowed the weak link to flourish.
Marbury had to expend too much energy on Allen to run the team effectively.
Crawford is not a starter! Dammit!
Q is too small to guard Pierce.
KG devoted his energy to the defensive side on Zach.
Game over.
Zeke needs a coach real quick.
Statesman, are you saying Q cannot guard Allen? I say, Hell yeah. When he gets tired, bring in fresh troops. Bring Balkman, bring Jefferies.
This line-up is the problem.
Folly:
You’re a whimp for a girl and a Tinkerbell. No man would be crying for attention and pity the way you do.
“I’m the black sheep” Self pity.
“I’m not welcomed here.” Didn’t everyone welcomed you ages ago.
“I’m not going to post here anymore.” Go the fuck away!
“I’m from Canada. I’m not used to this.” Stop sucking on your mom’s and buy a pint of milk, or better yet a forty.
How about growing a pair? I do have peeps from Canada, and none are as bitchy as you.
I’m embarassed for you.
I’m hiding behind Lives? I’m my own man, and folks on here already know that. I stand alone. I can handle myself unlike you. Throw a bit of flack your way and you end up in the fetal position.
Check yourself and man up beeaaach.
By African on Nov 30, 2007
I?m sorry to burst any bubbles, but the Knicks are far, far, far from ?the most profitable franchise right now.? My brain is old and muddled, so I forget whether they lost 40 millions dollars last year, or 400 million dollars, but it?s one of those two numbers.
The Knicks are, however, rated by, I believe Forbes, as the most valuable franchise. That?s a huge difference. And it has nothing to do with how the organization is run. The Knicks are only valuable due to real estate prices and inflation. Certainly, Dolan has brought no added value to the team. He was given the franchise and the one thing even he can?t destroy is the value of real estate in mid-town Manhattan. No other NBA arena sits on such valuable property. And, of course, no other NBA team plays in the country?s #1 tv market. But those were gimmees long before Dolan was given the franchise. One wonders if he could run a Wendy?s at a profit, let alone an NBA franchise.
By Trane on Nov 30, 2007
African what game were you watching? Zach and Curry go 3 for 23 and it’s Crawfords fault? You are as clueless as they come. Here is a basketball hint for you: ” When shots are missed, opposing team goes into transition game (aka fast break) for easy shots, even Rodman with Ben Wallace together wouldn’t defend more the 20% of those.
By rush on Nov 30, 2007
Rush:
Ha!
You’re as simple as they come.
There’s more to it than missed shots.
By African on Nov 30, 2007
ChuckFM,
I see you now taking fully your Defender role. Thanks for that.
Statesman,
I missed your and Tman’s calming presence. The Coach who’s getting paid missed a golden opportunity right at the first 3 missed jumped shots to sit the boys down and “COACH” them into shape. Having to do that in the locker room at half-time is more than a notion–a Herculean task. You’ve typed it before, if only life was about plugging in player X for player Z whenever a missed defensive assignment happened or a layup missed.
Syd,
Useful post. Very useful. That patience and calm in the face of this storm have merits but it must not be the only approach to dealing with this adversity. Don’t make a “panic” move but for chrissakes do something.
KFLL
By Steady on Nov 30, 2007
tom, we’ve had our differences in the past (we can’t agree to disagree until you’ve read MODI’s treatise on zeke. you still don’t agree, we’ll leave it there), but you should know that JayBee the newbee does not represent all of us.
re zeke, it’s not enough to be “okay,” “pretty good,” or “better than average.” not if you’re a black man in management. you have to be indisputably outstanding if you desire net positive press. and even then, as with the case of the colts, you won’t get your due. no “genius” labels, no bigups for you, you become near invisible to the press radar. them’s just the facts.
By Charles Follymacher on Nov 30, 2007
African it has been established for a while now that you do not know or understand what you are watching, so just shut up. The game plan is to go inside first which Knicks did and flopped. Missed shots create fast break opps for opposition which cannot be defended 80% of the time. Knicks played excellent half court defense in the 1st half and were stopping Celts very effectively but if you continue to miss open shots you can’t win period. Tape games next time and watch them twice so you may get it one day.
By rush on Nov 30, 2007
*rolls eyes @ African* whatever, gramps. here’s a mop.
steady, i swear it’s not my first time manning the post, but thanks anyway.
By Charles Follymacher on Nov 30, 2007
Jay-Bee, you knob. I didn’t write that, just thought it was an interesting observation by a blogger, so chill out you blind idiot.
Of course I having fun twatface, you would too if your team ever gets relevant again which leaves you making unintelligent and factless predictions like: “There will be no point in the next 4 to 6 years at least that the Sonics will win more games than the Knicks.” and “They play well now, but it won’t last. No rings and in two years you’ll be right back in the lottery.” How the f do you know?
Give me some hard facts on how the Knicks are the most profitable and valuable franchise and I’ll give you some credibility you cornholing nutsack! Cause I find that hard to believe. Is that in the NBA only? Compared to the Mets? What?
By Tom on Nov 30, 2007
Rush:
You keep talking about yourself, and in the process exposing yourself.
Aren’t you the one that wouldn’t draft Magic and Bird? Talk about not knowing what you’re talking about.
So according to your take, whenever a shot is missed inside, a fast break occurs?
Son, that’s when a fast break shouldn’t result. Inside shots don’t yield fast breaks.
If that’s your theory of last night, then you’re clearly showing how much you know.
Rondo went off to start the game. Not Pierce, not Allen, not KG.
You’d better watch the game again.
They attacked our weakest link.
By African on Nov 30, 2007
Tom,
That was a great win for your side. But admit that Ainge is not wicked smaaaht. McFhale bailed him out. But for the private choice of how the Lil Generals (4* & 5*) Stephon, Stevie Franchise, Laetner, and Jefferson style their lives JayBee is ON POINT.
KFLL
By Steady on Nov 30, 2007
African Rondo had 10 points for the entire game. What the fuck are you talking about? He hit 3 shots from the above the foul line and that was it. You are an idiot.
By rush on Nov 30, 2007
Charles, ty for those comments. I did read it and it swayed me a bit, but was still an opinion. So I still disagree, no problem, opinions are cheap that’s why I have a lot of them.
Trane, thanks for the financial breakdown and verification that it has nothing to with the miscalcualtions of management and player deficiancies, it’s location, location, location.
By Tom on Nov 30, 2007
Further evidence of a fairy.
“*rolls eyes @ African* whatever, gramps. here’s a mop.”
Rolls eyes?!!
Shaow me a man that rolls his eyes, and I’ll show you a tinkerbell.
The Village is waiting! Greenwich Village that is.
By African on Nov 30, 2007
The reason Rondo got those shots was because we played lock down on Pierce and Garnett to start the game, which is what we were suppose to do in the first place.
By rush on Nov 30, 2007
trane with all that property talk, you’re confusing knicks with MSG. value is based on gate revenues, local tv revenues and licencing fees. to their credit, they’ve been able to keep fans interested in what they’ve been trying to build since zeke came on board. that’s neither a guaranteed nor indefinite revenue stream.
By Charles Follymacher on Nov 30, 2007
Rush:
Thanks for the compliment.
But in case you missed it, and you abviously did. That set the tone of the game.
Enough!
By African on Nov 30, 2007
Tom,
That was a great win for your side. But admit that Ainge is not wicked smaaaht. McFhale bailed him out. But for the private choice of how the Lil Generals (4* & 5*) Stephon, Stevie Franchise, Laetner, and Jefferson style their lives JayBee is ON POINT.
Steady,
I don’t know how smart Danny is and either do you, but I love him right now. The McHale thing, sure, but when I make a deal in my business that’s because I built a relationship that made it possible. That’s all I’m saying, who’s going to give Zeke and Dolan a good deal when they haven’t done their legwork to develop a win-win relationship?
I never saw the Lil Generals comments, it’s not in this thread is it?
By Tom on Nov 30, 2007
african, if you haven’t had occasion to roll your eyes since the age of 18 it’s cuz you’re either blind (check) or, as a crazy person roaming the streets with the wild-eye stare, you’ve dried out your tear ducts too paranoid to blink. your pick.
By Charles Follymacher on Nov 30, 2007
ok, tom, well if you’ve read MODIs whole entire breakdown and still think, “Isiah was never part of anything positive for any team since the Pistons,” I can’t think of you as a reasonable person. That’s just too extreme a position to be taken seriously. If you want to have low heat discussion in here with us, you’ll have to come with your tongue considerably more curbed. Just a headsup.
By Charles Follymacher on Nov 30, 2007
You people are insane saying that Isiah doesn’t have relationships in the league. He made more trades in 4 years then any other GM in the league. Bringing a ton of picks and players to the Knick. You people are as dumb as African.
By rush on Nov 30, 2007
“If you want to have low heat discussion in here with us, you’ll have to come with your tongue considerably more curbed. Just a headsup.” That’s what I’m talking about! I think Tom has some testosterone.
Folly, not everyone is as sensitive as you are.
I agree with Tom. At the end of the day, it doesn’t matter who you sold your soul to in this league, it’s the results that matter. Doc could wind up a HOF coach after that move, when all of Boston wanted his ass just a few months ago.
Pat Riley’s riding a HOF because of the horses he had. Same with Phil.
It’s the results baby.
By African on Nov 30, 2007
African,
I disagree with your assessment on Crawford’s level of blame for the debacle last night.
Granted, his going around and not thru screens allowed Mondo to hit a couple of shots early on, but he’s hardly the blame for the shameful TEAM performance.
And if Craw’s defensive deficiencies started the downhill spiral, then Curry and Marbury’s lackluster performances surely sealed our fate.
The starting lineup needs to be changed, starting at the 3 spot, and possibly ending with sittin’ Curry’s fat uninspired ass down.
We need to put last night behind us and get a victory tonight, or heads will roll, fo sho’.
By Bronxboy in Md on Nov 30, 2007
DEE-FENDERS,
It’s GETTING HOT in here!! I hope the Knicks are as ANGRY as the bloggers.
African I saw the jab, but your hands are full w/ Charlie & Rush.
Charlie, African must not be enough! You also want Tom.
Steady, they are ignoring you. You are TOO STEADY, they want to ATTACK each other. No time for
informative conversation.
I understand the pain, but it is starting to sound/read like DAY CARE in here.
Fellas, it only count as ONE LOSS. Where’s the GM(DVJ) when you need him?
Peace & Blessings
By STATESMAN on Nov 30, 2007
States:
I ate these two pieces of fruit for breakfast. No problem there.
Bx:
You don’t need to agree and that’s fine. Crawford is not the only problem. You didn’t get my point fully. The main problem is the starting line-up.
We need to get away from the three guard set. It creating mismatches. Q is not a three in this league. We need jefferies or Balk to defend. The starters lack D, and hiding Craw only exposes other players.
Craw is not a starter in this league!
By African on Nov 30, 2007
african, clearly your system cannot handle a surfeit of testosterone. if you can bleed some of it out down to normal human levels, you might could bump up your IQ 20, 30 points. it will be a blessing for your wife and children the first time you crack 85. and since we’re playing the “out of context” game then I guess we can now assume you’re one of those who believes zeke is a complete idiot. good to know. we are advised.
found some solace in something Lives said last night:
mebbe that’s the deal. mebbe zeke was waving the white flag early when it was clear the team was just not ready for this. tomorrow (today) is another day, live to dunk another day an all that. bucks should be a much easier target and knicks should be chomping at the bit for redemption but dag the bucks (aka redd and the whodats) seem to have found a lil religion so far this season. i guarantee this’ll be a good game for high drama tonight.
ok, back to work.
By Charles Follymacher on Nov 30, 2007
Tom,
Ainge may have been “smaaaht” to know that “you do business with people you like and trust”. We blog and type our opinions, right? I said he is not “wicked smaaaht”. What I do know is that he’s got the coins to get the new E-class that I want.
Statesman,
Understood. Agreed.
KFLL
By Steady on Nov 30, 2007
Folly:
Thanks for the advice. By now you should know I very uneducated, and on welfare. IQ, about a quarter.
Testosterone though, I can share with you.
You need it. Anything for my fellow defender.
By African on Nov 30, 2007
The Knicks do not care about them winning or losing.
All they do is go get their checks.
Charles Barkely hit it right on the head yesterday.
They don’t have it..they don’t want it.
Trade everybody except the hustle players.
If you think there’s still hope for this team….your crazy.
The things we lack…you can’t teach. (Hustle, Hustle, Hustle)
African is right about Rondo…I said it last night in the blog.
Jamal continues to go under screens and gets burned for it.
It set a tone last night in the beginning of the game.
I’m not saying the loss is Crawfords fault but it’s about time Isiah realizes he is not a starter in this league.
Q cannot play the 3!!!
Why have all those offensive minded people in the starting 5?
Makes no sense.
Good win last night Tom….
Aingle gets all the credit!!
Maybe Isiah should reach out to Dumars and see if he can make something happen LOL…
I doubt it because Detroit is still good and Minn sucked last year when they traded KG.
Boston is going to win the Chip this year and if you think they won’t…your in denial.
By DaVonn Jefferson on Nov 30, 2007
Charles, I think I hold my own as a NBA fan. I throw out some crap, but not to the extent of some of the folks on this blog. That’s what wakes me up and incites me to comment is that some of the comments in here are just pure wild speculation but is still delivered like it’s cold facts. That brings out the BS police in me. It’s just fun though, I just love basketball and enjoy chatting with people about it.
You never convince me that Isaih is more of a positive influence on this sport than a negative one though, so let’s just disagree.
By Tom on Nov 30, 2007
TY African!
By Tom on Nov 30, 2007
Steady, that’s cool, hell I think I’m smart, and my wife and boss argue that every day. My E-Class is a 2000 and only a 320 afterall. Plus, it’s white! That is so gay I have to coordinate my warddrobe with it, mostly tans and creams, lol.
Cheers!
By Tom on Nov 30, 2007
Check this thread out on realgm.com about a possible protest:
http://www.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?topic=734896
By DNM on Nov 30, 2007
Thanks DaVonn, it will be nice to see a real game between the 2, hopefully soon.
By Tom on Nov 30, 2007
just when i thought i was out…
Fair enough, on that (if we’re considering only post-playing days) we can civilly agree to disagree.
after checking out the bucks season so far, i’m upgrading my caution to predicting a knicks win…by at least 10. this is a measuring stick game. size of heart, amount of trust (among teammates). the bucks, at .538 (5th best in the conference), are where we want to be, where we oughta be. i don’t think it’s too early to get dramatic — we lose this, turn out the lights.
By Charles Follymacher on Nov 30, 2007
Is the 99 Knicks coming back to play tonight or something?
If we got the same team as last night….WE WILL LOSE AGAIN!!!
Redd, Yi, Mo Williams will run us into the ground.
We will lose by 7 tonight maybe 10 depending on free throws.
Watch how Redd dominates Jamal.
Watch how he runs under picks again tonight.
The guy just doesn’t get it.
By DaVonn Jefferson on Nov 30, 2007
Thank you DaVonn.
Jamal is the weak link.
This team would be so much better(IMO)with a legit three starting and Jamal coming off the bench.
We also have so many threes that can defend!
By African on Nov 30, 2007
Charles, I’ll be like the drummer that has to get the last beat in at the end of a song before the guitar player riffs it. I am mostly talking talking post-playing days except at least 4 items I’m thinking of that were during his playing days:
1. Backing up Rodman on his post game interview that Bird is hyped so much becuase he is White.
2. Proactive Snub of Jordan in his first All-Star game.
3. His lack of class in retreating to the lockerroom before the game was over and not congratulating the Bulls victory playoff when the Pistons walked right in front of the Bulls bench on their way out like little babies.
4. Some incident with a reporter? (not sure if this was duirng his playoff days.)
By Tom on Nov 30, 2007
pathetic. thats all i can muster right now.
By JohnQ on Nov 30, 2007
I’m gonna watch my advanced copy of Superbad tonight instead of watch this sorry ass team. I’ll just casually look at the score from time to time. I estimate that should equal the effort that they bring. Why should I make the effort to watch if they dont make the effort to play ??????
By JohnQ on Nov 30, 2007
Tom,Tom,Tom,
Some incident w/ a reporter? Can you be more SPECIFIC?
Tom, it is important, that when you name the incident you do not take them out of context.
His lack of class in retreating… What you may not know, and What the MSM INTENTIONALLY fail
to report is that before the deciding game in the series, Jordan in an interview
said that the Pistons were not good Champions and not Worthy of their Championships. When
the interview was played for the Pistons before the game they agreed to show the Bulls & Jordan
the same level of disrespect. This is not reported.
Backing up Rodman on Bird. Tom, if you ever get a chance to see the interview, and believe me there
is a reason why you will not, You will see Thomas give a sarcastic laugh and say yeah right. What was
more provocative but under reported was Thomas comments that Black Players are never given credit
for being smart and being hard workers. He said that that he and Majic are portrayed as coming out of their
mother’s womb dribbling as opposed to working hard to become great players. This exist today. I believe Thomas
should be ADMIRED for his comments.
Peace & Blessings
By STATESMAN on Nov 30, 2007
Charles ? I believe you?re wrong. When the value of the franchise is calculated, the value of MSG is very much included because it?s a franchise asset. And that?s just the point. If you look at the management of running the business which is the Knicks on an annual basis . . . the business is losing massive amounts of money every year. I?m pretty sure the Knicks lose the most money annually among all the NBA teams. (I think it’s $40 million, annually.) Again, the only reasons the value of the franchise remains high are the givens that existed long before Dolan got the Knicks for xmas one year. The value of the franchise is an estimate of what it would cost to buy the Knicks. Which would, by definition, include buying MSG (and the Rangers, I presume, but that?s another story). Hence, it?s quite valid ? and, indeed, essential ? to distinguish between the franchise?s value (which is high) and its profitability (which is in the toilet).
By Trane on Nov 30, 2007
@ DaVonn, African..
Don’t get me wrong…I’m not saying Jamal’s lack of attention to detail on the defensive end of the floor isn’t a problem…
I’m merely saying it’s not the ONLY problem!!!!
@ African…
Don’t be fooled by Kobe’s “cheerleader”…..you gotta know that regardless who our “two” was, he wouldn’t be good enough unless it was KB24.
Why don’t you speak on some of the other “glaring” deficiencies on this team….starting with Curry.
His deficiencies are so glaring they’re blinding.
By Bronxboy in Md on Nov 30, 2007
Judging from the outcry, it looks like a loss tonight will signal the end of Isiah. Even if Dolan wants to keep him the public outcry may be too much. As such I think Isiah should at least go out with a BIG BANG.
He should start Morris and ZBo. Now ZBo was also part of the problem last night, not wanting to pass the ball when he was covered and taking many bad shots and IT should be ready to yank him out if he repeats he same mistakes today.
I think Marbury is a lost cause. IT should start Nate or JCraw at the point. I know Craw has some defensive liabilities but the point is something he’s done well in before. Jones or Q should start at shooting guard with Jefferies at the 3. Balk, Lee and Chandler should see more playing time. Let’s give Malik to Charity. Maybe we can get a Tax deductible.
These changes might create more problems but I wouldn’t mind that he tried them.
I still remain a Knicks fan.
LGK
By Jazz on Nov 30, 2007
Statesman, I hadn’t heard that quote in years and it’s still hilarious and on point. Like I’ve said on other sites, it’s a Rodman quote, Isiah just cosigned and he’s been paying for it ever since.
By Jay Bee on Nov 30, 2007
the tragedy in all of this?
is that, the best leader for our team is a retired HOF Point Guard who is also the coach and is also the GM.
There are no easy ways out of this situation.
Not another GM
Not another coach.
Not another PG
Zach has to look beyond the circus atmosphere of NY (and I bet he thought he had it bad in Portland).
Steph…I don’t know about Steph. Is there a solution that involves him? How can there be? He’s the best all-around guard on the team but it doesn’t translate into anything because none of his teammates follow him.
Curry? Still 2 years away from being a final product. I hope that the coaching staff can stuff enough info in the next 2 years to make him the kind of player some of us think he’s capable of being.
QRich? Needs to find a stroke. Needs to start the game popping mid range jumpers and trying to draw fouls with pump fakes driving through the lane. He needs to add another dimension to his offensive game if his stroke his off. The spot shooting, ace-defender bit isn’t working for him this year. Yes, he’s gritty. Yes, he looks healthy. But, damn, when his stroke is off…there’s not much difference between him and Jeffries.
JCraw? Has looked tentative in the last 2 Knick wins. He has looked noticeably disengaged from the flow of the offense. He hasn’t done much with the ball in his hands. He looks to be in transition from a change within the offense. Can’t put my finger on it but the role he played last night is not the same role that JCraw has had all season(up until the 2 game winning streak).
Thing is Af, I can’t see Q as a SG. He’s been shit as a spot up shooter. He has no slashing game. So how is he going to fit in alongside Curry and ZBo? At least in the 2 wins, JCraw was hitting his spot up attempts. QRich has the beginnings of a post up game and we could use that, but not with Curry and ZBo taking up the bulk of post possessions.
Bottom line: The team needs an upgrade at the SF, SG and first position off the bench.
Depending on the player we get back in a trade, one or two trades can do it.
Artest should replace QRich. He could be had with a simple sign and trade with Sac. Is there a chance another team will snatch him up in the meantime? I don’t know. That’s a risk.
Could you, as a fan, stomach another losing season? If we wait for the upcoming off season to make more moves, we will have Stephon’s $20 million expiring contract to play with. $20 million coming off the cap in one fell swoop is a VERY desirable thing for another team. Could we pick up Artest AND unload Steph for a collection of picks and bad contracts?
With all the garbage talk happening across the blogs today, this is what we are left with. OTP-talk.
Why ?
Changing GM’s won’t magically make the player’s contracts easier to trade.
Changing Coach’s won’t magically mesh the player’s talent’s together and make them play with pride.
The lineup changes are decent discussions. But no one the second team is FAR AND AWAY a big enough upgrade to make me think they will make much difference.
Isiah is guilty of leaving the starters in there for too-long stretches. They’ve no cohesion, no chemistry and too much frustration. ZBo looks frustrated with the guard play. The guards have looked frustrated at the inconsistency from Curry.
The second team feeds off the first team unless the first team is really stinking it up…which was the case last night.
I don’t know. It sucks. Something needs to happen and I don’t know what it is. I wish the benching-Stephon-experiment would have worked. But, he’s learned nothing positive from the situation.
And obviously, the rest of the team hasn’t either.
And what’s worse? We don’t match up well with Milwaukee.
By BARF on Nov 30, 2007
Tom, you may or may not come to find that I am very civil in my posts most days. I even respect your opinion as your own. But if you belittle my team, (Dude, look where you are. HELLOOOOOO, De-fend-er) then you can expect to have your arguments attacked. My opinion is mine and Follymacher is right, I do not speak for the whole site. But know this, the defense may have been lacking last night, but the defense this afternoon is stout and aggressive. There will be no layups today, so drive to the hole at your own risk. Things you can get away with in Hahn’s blog won’t work here.
By Jay Bee on Nov 30, 2007
Excuses excuses excuses
Are you serious?
Bronxboy…what you sid is so not fair about Kobe.
Sounds like your running out of excuses.
The problem is not only Jamal…it’s the entire team.
They don’t have a leader.
Yes, Kobe is a great leader but give me Joe Johnson over Jamal.
We don’t need Kobe but it would be nice.
If you don’t want Kobe on your team, your not a realist and it makes no sense in talking to you about this.
Joe Johnson would be such an upgrade.
Like I’ve said before..maybe if Jamal had a post up game, he would’ve been able to utilize that last night and maybe get to the line more..I don’t know.
All I know is I’m not going to stick up for this team when they don’t give effort.
You can sit here and give excuses and say we need more time or that Curry needs to learn how to rebound all you want.
Not me !!!
Changes are in the air.
Get Steph out of here!!!
Get Curry out of here!!!
Jamal goes to the bench!!!
Q slides to the 2 !!!
Get Rose out of here!!!!
By DaVonn Jefferson on Nov 30, 2007
Why stick up for these bums?
I’m a Knicks fan….
I don’t like this Knicks team and I’m not going to think they will win anymore because they never do LOL.
4 wins in 14 games?
GTFOH!!!
By DaVonn Jefferson on Nov 30, 2007
DVJ
Get Steph out of here for who?
Get Curry out of here for whom?
Get Rose out of here for who?
All you need is your brain(check), your knowledge of NBA rosters(check) and the TRADE MACHINE (check) to proofread your trade proposals.
Oh, BTW, Jamal for Joe Johnson?
Yeah right. Only in your dreams DVJ…right after Kobe puts on the O&B #8 jersey, here walks in Joe Johnson ready for Knick minutes. Yeah right.
You’re the knicksdefense GM…get to work.
I don’t have a problem with OTP’s…what I have a problem with is fans proposing ridiculous trades. Does nothing for the discussion.
By BARF on Nov 30, 2007
what would you rather have:
(1)a team full of role players and no leaders
or
(2)a team with a leader and no role players
That’s most of the NBA. Most franchises have one problem or the other.
By BARF on Nov 30, 2007
BARF…do you see a trade proposal in my comments?
I don’t either.
Get those players out of here now!!!
You know what?
I’ll wait till after tonights game. If we lose, I would love to see what you think then.
You have to figure anybody that gets blown out by 50 should come back for the next game (next night) and give effort right?
Let’s see what happens.
In the meantime..chew on this while I go to my trade machine.
Joe Johnson is 3 times better than anybody on our team in the backcourt.
Please tell me you disagree so I can give you Joe’s rundown.
Just like I did when we traded for Zach.
Just like Zach…I’ve followed Joe since high school and then followed him again in college.
PHX would’ve won a Chip by now, if they still had him.
By DaVonn Jefferson on Nov 30, 2007
what would you rather have:
(1)a team full of role players and no leaders
or
(2)a team with a leader and no role players
That’s most of the NBA. Most franchises have one problem or the other.
I would rather get a proven leader and then fill out the roster with role players.
By DaVonn Jefferson on Nov 30, 2007
The bottom line is the Knicks need to be rebuilt. This is beyond a doubt. The real question is finding the right person to do it.
I’m not interested in empowering Isiah to do anything else.
That’s was a tanking. Time to find the right person to run the Knicks.
By Minnesota Knicks Fan on Nov 30, 2007
Hay guys, sorry, on Friday for the most part I’m a no show. Just letting you guys know that I’m saving this page to read later and looking forward to reading them. WriteOn all a hundred times and as Spock would say on Star Trek,”Live Long and Prosper!” Then we give each other a Vulcan salute.
Now a designated defender job here is to come up with a Knick Defenders salute. Any takers for that assignment?!
Went over there on KnicksKnation, and was the first commenter on Isola new corny and highly presumed(i didnt read it yet)hating of the Knicks, the organization, and Isiah. Anyway I posted all the knicksdefense.com,Modi’s,FireLupica,websites to start off the thread and a special gift to those haters:Modi’s Biggest Myths of Isiah, as a gift.
Anti-Out!!!
By Anti-NYSportsNews on Nov 30, 2007
Fine, we should get rid of Isiah. But I hope you realize this means another 6 year plan, because no new GM is going to want ANYONE on this team. They all have flaws or large contracts. That was how we got away from Weatherspoon, Doleac, Anderson, Lampje, etc. This wasn’t the complete plan to a championship. The problem is, we were at least supposed to be competitive. Anyone that looks at the roster before IT and now cannot logically say this was not an improvement in talent. That’s all you can ask from a GM. Now, to turnover an overpaid roster to a championship team takes more than 3 years. Chicago’s roster was considerably better than ours when Paxson arrived. Same with Ainge. How many lottery picks did they have in the past 5 years? We gambled on 2 of our lottery picks (they became lottery picks because talent like Steph hasn’t worked) for Curry. Did anyone think that was a bad gamble? Hasn’t produced a great deal for Chicago yet either.
It’s hard to go through it but it takes time. That’s why I laugh when idiots like Laurel and Hardy (Barkley and Miller) say NY should lose for 5 years to acquire talent. NEW YORK WOULD NEVER ACCEPT THAT. We expect a winner every year. We could not do what Boston and Chicago and Portland have done [are doing]. The press that sells that are liars. This has only been 14 games. Imagine 400 like this (5 years). Will never happen in New York. Plus, the value of the franchise would take a tremendous hit.
Keep doing what you do IT.
By HarleminMD on Nov 30, 2007
Time to Turn UP the Heat on State Puff
By Matt Agne | November 29th, 2007
E-mail | Print | Share
On paper Eddie Curry is having a pretty good year so far. He’s averaging 17.9 PPG, 6.3 RPG and 0.6 APG. For his career he averages 13.6 PPG, 5.5 RPG and 0.6 APG. A lot has been made about how Isiah has Curry playing at a higher level than ever and how he’s a changed player. I don’t see it. Curry is soft. He doesn’t rebound like a big man. He doesn’t know what defense means. He gets pushed all over the floor and he’s usually the biggest player on the court. Curry is 6’11”, 285 lbs. He has no business getting man handled. He should be banging bodies and throwing his weight around meanwhile he plays back on his heals and tries to out-jump others for rebounds. With a vertical that looks like it’s a ½ inch flat he averages as many rebounds as guards do. There is no reason why our starting center averages the same amount of RPG as Quentin Richardson. While I’m badmouthing him I might as well say he was born in ’82 so he’s a year younger than me and he has more money than I’ll ever see. All I can say to that is POOP. Anyway, if it weren’t for Zach Randolph averaging 12.5 RPG we wouldn’t be able to get and second looks on offense or any change of possessions on defense out of our block. Randolph is averaging 18.6 PPG, 12.5 RPG and 1.3 APG. That’s a basketball player. He’s a beast. Curry? Not so much. Curry is a classic case that makes the argument that potential never won anything. Curry has the prototypical size to be a dominant center ala Shaquille O’Neal. The difference between guys like Curry and guys like Shaq and Dwight Howard are that those guys physically impose their will on their opponents while Curry is happier taking what he can get. Even when the offense is pushed through him Curry fails to claim control of a game. Its time to realize that Curry will never be anything more than what he already is. He can no longer be the guy this team is built around. Its time to mold this team around the rare double-double talent of Zach Randolph and put the State Puff Marshmallow Man on the block.
This entry was posted on Thursday, November 29th, 2007 at 8:4
By DaVonn Jefferson on Nov 30, 2007
DVJ I know you’re just being retarded even if you don’t. I have to remind myself that you were the only one talking about 57 wins…so it should be no surprise to me that you are the guy with the hardest edge after this terrible start…just terrible. You have lost more credibility than anyone else…and for that, I’m sorry.
On to more productive endeavors…
I just looked over the 2008 free agent list for a list of who’s going to be available this upcoming off season.
Here’s a list of UNRESTRICTED F.A. Centers who fit my criteria of being both the uptempo big and the shotblocker we need coming off the bench:
DJ Mbenga
Stromile Swift
Francisco Elson (although he doesn’t get blocks, he is an uptempo big)
Here’s a list of UNRESTRICTED SF’s:
Antawn Jamison
Ron Artest
Corey Maggette
Ideally, I’d like to see two sign and trade offers this offseason. According to ,a href=”http://www.hoopshype.com/salaries/new_york.htm”>hoopshype’s Knicks’ payroll page Malik ($7.7 mil) will be an expiring contract next year as will Stephon’s ($21.93 mil).
That’s close to $30 million either (a)coming off the cap (b)worth of contracts, picks, players to help out the roster.
There are not many more “Stephon-big” contracts out there in the NBA. His contract is a dinosaur of the 90’s era. We should be able to get a lot (mid level players, bad contracts, picks, maybe a leader) in return for his contract.
Malik is another nice sized contract that should net us SOMETHING.
The following year, after they both exercise their player-options (cuz they would be stupid not to), QRich’s contract ($9.4 mil) and Jerome James’ contract ($6.6 mil) will be set to expire. That’s $16 mil more worth of picks, contracts, players we would give up.
Why would any fan want to see us give away Curry, Stephon or Rose? For nothing?
DVJ, back to the GM drawing board for you. You gotta do better than that.
By BARF on Nov 30, 2007
DVJ I know you’re just being retarded even if you don’t. I have to remind myself that you were the only one talking about 57 wins…so it should be no surprise to me that you are the guy with the hardest edge after this terrible start…just terrible. You have lost more credibility than anyone else…and for that, I’m sorry.
On to more productive endeavors…
I just looked over the 2008 free agent list for a list of who’s going to be available this upcoming off season.
Here’s a list of UNRESTRICTED F.A. Centers who fit my criteria of being both the uptempo big and the shotblocker we need coming off the bench:
DJ Mbenga
Stromile Swift
Francisco Elson (although he doesn’t get blocks, he is an uptempo big)
Here’s a list of UNRESTRICTED SF’s:
Antawn Jamison
Ron Artest
Corey Maggette
Ideally, I’d like to see two sign and trade offers this offseason. According to hoopshype’s Knicks’ payroll page Malik ($7.7 mil) will be an expiring contract next year as will Stephon’s ($21.93 mil).
That’s close to $30 million either (a)coming off the cap (b)worth of contracts, picks, players to help out the roster.
There are not many more “Stephon-big” contracts out there in the NBA. His contract is a dinosaur of the 90’s era. We should be able to get a lot (mid level players, bad contracts, picks, maybe a leader) in return for his contract.
Malik is another nice sized contract that should net us SOMETHING.
The following year, after they both exercise their player-options (cuz they would be stupid not to), QRich’s contract ($9.4 mil) and Jerome James’ contract ($6.6 mil) will be set to expire. That’s $16 mil more worth of picks, contracts, players we would give up.
Why would any fan want to see us give away Curry, Stephon or Rose? For nothing?
DVJ, back to the GM drawing board for you. You gotta do better than that.
By BARF on Nov 30, 2007
Barf,
Good stuff. Exactly why Isiah is not going anywhere. If nothing else, $30 mill in expiring contracts is great leverage for trades. That’s probably why Jared Jordan was brought into camp. Once MJ, I mean Starbury, is gone, we will should get a true passing point guard. Then I’ll judge Big Boy (Curry).
By HarleminMD on Nov 30, 2007
tom @ #50. those are extremely piddly incidents to bring up. ty cobb could pile up more and graver offenses in a week. but you miss the point, it’s not about the nearness to angelic behaviour. everyone’s human, even larry bird, so you can bet anyone motivated enough to dig into things will find something(s) objectionable. the question is if the sum of them behaviours give you a net positive or negative. i’m bettin zeke’s one famous night playin on one leg gave nba fans approximately 53.458 times more inspiration (whether you were a fan of the pistons or not) than them piddly “offenses” you mentioned.
pre-abs, as an executive/coach, i think on balance zeke’s been an asset to the league. i can certainly speak to the excitement he brought to canada/toronto when the raptors were born. i can’t imagine that nba fans from indiana thought he was a terrible idea when he landed there either. no, he hasn’t been perfect, but that’s a common msm tactic, to point out flaws without counterbalance, as if perfection is the expected standard (a standard only applied to black execs). frig man, even rc buford’s made a couple errors.
trane @#54. dewd, you have it wrong. you’re getting things confused. the knicks do not own msg. they are separate entities. whenever you have team owners (any sport) and stadium disputes it’s always about the lease arrangement. they don’t own shit but licencing, gate and tv revenues. the only team of a major city that pulls in mad revenues year in, year out no matter if the team’s been losing for decades is the toronto maple leafs. that’s it. everybody else has to work at spit shining either the product or the PR.
anyway, i’ll wait for you to look it up. and see if you can’t get that “loss” straight will you?
trane: yeah, knicks lost $400 million last year! no, wait, mighta bin $40 million. or was it $4 million? come to think of it, it’s possible it was $400,000. $4,000? wait, mebbe they only made $4 million. crap. i dunno. there was a 4 and some zeros in there. i’m sure of it. i think.
By Charles Follymacher on Nov 30, 2007
DEE-FENDERS,
This weekend should tell the story. As Dee-fenders JUMP SHIP, will they come back if we win 2 more games.
If that happens record is 6-10, not great but an opportunity to get to .500. The loss was bad, but the
REALITY is the team just won 2 Games against last year’s playoff Teams. Are some of you JUMPING because
you OVERRATED the Talent? There are No Baby Shaqs, No Calvin Murphys, and for you guys that put JChuck
in Wade’s League, or projected 57 Wins,..A MIND IS A TERRIBLE THING TO WASTE. There may be light at
the end of the tunnel?
Let’s Go Knicks,
Peace & Blessings
By STATESMAN on Nov 30, 2007
Trying to play GM is fun, but is a total waste of time. Finding a new GM/President is the only conversation worth having. Wake up everyone, face what we all don’t want to face… the Knicks are poorly constructed and ridiculously overpaid. It’s going to take a very savvy talent evaluator and negotiator (IT OVERPAYS EVERY FREAKIN’ TIME!!!!) to come in an start making good deals.
No one can sit around with a TradeMachine and do what needs to be done with the Knicks.
By Minnesota Knicks Fan on Nov 30, 2007
Why do people resort to name calling all the time here?
“DVJ I know you’re just being retarded even if you don’t. I have to remind myself that you were the only one talking about 57 wins…so it should be no surprise to me that you are the guy with the hardest edge after this terrible start…just terrible. You have lost more credibility than anyone else…and for that, I’m sorry.”
BARF, I will say this again and maybe this time you’ll listen…this is not a popularity contest so I don’t care about credibility here.
If you do so be it…that’s your choice and I would never attack that.
If Steph continued to play like he did 2nd half of the season last year…we would win 50 games.
“Barf,
“Good stuff. Exactly why Isiah is not going anywhere. If nothing else, $30 mill in expiring contracts is great leverage for trades.”
LOL
Keep thinking Isiah isn’t going anywhere!!!
Don’t be surprised in a few weeks if not days when he is gone.
Statesman
“This weekend should tell the story. As Dee-fenders JUMP SHIP, will they come back if we win 2 more games.”
No, last night told the story…did you forget about the first 40 point blowout from the Celtics?
I didn’t come back when we won 2 games before we lost to the Celtics…why would I come back if we did it aain?
By DaVonn Jefferson on Nov 30, 2007
Minn Knicks fan said
“Trying to play GM is fun, but is a total waste of time. Finding a new GM/President is the only conversation worth having. Wake up everyone, face what we all don’t want to face… the Knicks are poorly constructed and ridiculously overpaid. It’s going to take a very savvy talent evaluator and negotiator (IT OVERPAYS EVERY FREAKIN’ TIME!!!!) to come in an start making good deals.”
EXACTLY!!!!!!!
By DaVonn Jefferson on Nov 30, 2007
He has to overpay to deal with this circus. Marketability goes both ways.
By HarleminMD on Nov 30, 2007
For those who questioned my numbers (Tom), it appears we have a difference of opinion related to semantics. That is in the NBA only. That’s Mr. Nutsack, buddy. Purchased at $296 mil in 1997, currently valued at $592 mil. 39 mil operating loss is irrelevant when you’ve doubled the value of the organization. Please also note that Dallas has the same kind of operating loss. When you have an owner that is willing to spend the money to be competitive that’s what happens. I had a link that compared the value of all sports franchises and lost it. If I find it again, I’ll post.
http://members.forbes.com/global/2007/0212/050.html
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9E0DE4DB1130F934A35750C0A961958260
Give me some hard facts on how the Knicks are the most profitable and valuable franchise and I’ll give you some credibility you cornholing nutsack! Cause I find that hard to believe. Is that in the NBA only? Compared to the Mets? What?
By Jay Bee on Nov 30, 2007
Again, a new GM means 5 more years of torture. No one is going to come here and try to coach these players.
If Isiah is gone within a couple of weeks, it won’t be the greatest move for the knicks. It will happen because sports fan are sheep.
Make sure you wear the required t-shirt tonight while you watch the game. Be prepared to chant in rhythm.
By HarleminMD on Nov 30, 2007
that was a tyson blow JB!! He’s down for the count!!!
By HarleminMD on Nov 30, 2007
I’m about to close up shop here so I’ll “see” you guys at game time.
By Jay Bee on Nov 30, 2007
Oh, BTW, IF we trade Lee or Balkman for an Artest or Jamison or a Maggette, I expect a 1st round draft pick in return.
They have to, at least, replace the youth (with a 1st rd draft pick) we are giving up. Its only fair.
Harlem, I hear you. Fans taking this “Knicks are coming to an end” thing too serious. As fans, we are in the best position we’ve been in since BEFORE EWING.
We are looking forward to HUGE CONTRACTS coming off the books EVERY YEAR after this year.
We are looking forward to a young core of players that NY’ers have NEVER seen BEFORE. NY was never a place where YOUTH was a feature.
So for all of you SHIP JUMPERS- let’s continue this trend of looking forward, shall we.
With Stephon’s contract and Malik’s contract, what would you do?
I have two conditions because GM’ing isn’t as easy as some would have you think.
With Stephon’s contract, you have to find a team that can eat half of the contract with SALARY CAP ROOM and supplement the rest of the SALARY CAP REQUIREMENTS with a bad contract and picks
or
find me a team with expiring contracts we can use plus a leader that is not in the team’s long term plans.
DVJ, sorry man. I never said I needed credibility or that it is a prerequisite to you posting. I am merely stating that if (a) You are the one who predicted 57 wins (b) You are the first/loudest one to have given up on THIS team AND (c) YOU HAVE NO GOOD IDEAS GOING FORWARD…then you don’t have any credibility.
So why should I trust your opinion?
I am merely laying out the reasons why I won’t go down the road you are choosing to go down. I am not saying its a bad thing or a good thing…I’m just saying that we are on different roads. If you can live with it, so can I.
But you and Minny Fan have no solutions other than “hire someone else who is smarter and better connected than Isiah to get the kind of deals that have been alluding us”.
Because, as we all know, once Isiah is fired, maybe we can get Kobe…or maybe Yao…or hell why stop there…TIM DUNCAN baby.
hahaha.
It just goes to show me that you don’t really appreciate the transformation this team/franchise has gone through.
Cuz, to me, this franchise was a joke a long time ago. People like Mak liked to point to playoff appearances and the like in the past…but after Ewing was traded…the best this team did was tread water. They made it to the playoffs without a chance in hell to win the whole thing. And the only thing as fans we could look forward to, was aging players, injured players, overpaid players and no direction.
Now, there’s direction, youth, talent…and fans don’t WANT MORE, they want to START OVER.
That’s funny to me. Because if you don’t prefer Isiah to STARTING OVER then we are NOT on the same team. One of us is missing something.
By BARF on Nov 30, 2007
The only T-Shirt I’ll have on will say
“Start Over”
By DaVonn Jefferson on Nov 30, 2007
I don’t believe rebuilding is torture… it can be fun to watch. That’s the New York, win-now problem. (I’m from NY so don’t start). The Wolves gutted the franchise, and I have to say, watching a lot of kids play hard and share the ball is a lot more fun than watching the disfunction that the Knicks are right now.
I think we are all starving for players who care. Who hustle and play hard. Who pull for each other. That’s what’s inspiring about sports. It’s not just winning. It’s about a team playing as one. Helping each other. Picking each other up. Playing with heart and effort and intensity. Practicing hard.
That’s why the Riley years where so awesome. John Starks playing above himself. Oakley banging the boards though he had barely any athleticism. Ewing being the ultimate warrior. Those guys came so close to dethroning Jordon at his peak. LJ with a bad back knocking down threes.
What do you think would happen if Marbury walked out during those years? There would be no vote… the PLAYERS would have kicked his ass. He would have been too hurt to play. They policed each other.
That’s what sucks about this team. We can all talk about potential and talent, but we can’t really talk about heart.
It’s time for a change. And it starts from the top.
By Minnesota Knicks Fan on Nov 30, 2007
DVJ didn’t jump off the bridge. He’s already in another state.
By BARF on Nov 30, 2007
“But you and Minny Fan have no solutions other than “hire someone else who is smarter and better connected than Isiah to get the kind of deals that have been alluding us”.
Because, as we all know, once Isiah is fired, maybe we can get Kobe…or maybe Yao…or hell why stop there…TIM DUNCAN baby.
hahaha.”
You laugh but your right LOL
I wonder why GM’s actually hate Isiah.
Listen, I’m not saying Isiah is the only one to blame. He is one of the reasons…which is why we have to get rid of him as well as the other problems that came with him.
(Marbury, Crawford and Curry) they are the only problems Isiah has brought to us.
Lee, Balkman, Nate, Chandler, Collins and Zach are not problems. I don’t mind keeping them.
All this praising for isiah’s draft picks is good and all but he’s not the only one that’s done it.
Yes, he is the best when it comes to drafting but stop acting like we should keep him just because of that.
LA’s GM drafted Bynum, Farmar, Turiaf and a few others.
Keep sticking by Isiah if you want to.
By DaVonn Jefferson on Nov 30, 2007
Barf,
I got it! Let’s trade our team for
Paul
Kobe
Deng
West
Howard
Plus 2 lottery protected picks
We’ll throw in $50 million in cash.
Ok?
By HarleminMD on Nov 30, 2007
“I think we are all starving for players who care. Who hustle and play hard. Who pull for each other. That’s what’s inspiring about sports. It’s not just winning. It’s about a team playing as one. Helping each other. Picking each other up. Playing with heart and effort and intensity. Practicing hard.”
I couldn’t say it better myself….
“What do you think would happen if Marbury walked out during those years? There would be no vote… the PLAYERS would have kicked his ass. He would have been too hurt to play. They policed each other.
That’s what sucks about this team. We can all talk about potential and talent, but we can’t really talk about heart.”
Excellent points!!!!!!!!
Let’s see what you have to say if the Knicks lose tonight.
4-10
By DaVonn Jefferson on Nov 30, 2007
Now you’re using Kupchak as a model? Are you serious? what has he done? Your man just called him out this summer, now you want to use his plan as the bible?
Come on.
By HarleminMD on Nov 30, 2007
Kobe called Bynum a bum in the Summer. Now you’re saying he’s a great pick.
By HarleminMD on Nov 30, 2007
Minny,
Minnesota’s situation is not comparable to this Knicks team.
The better comparison would be to the Ewing team that he was traded from. The Knicks blew that trade on every level. The got back old losers and a bag of shit in return for Pat.
So when I read these idiot reporters apologizing to Ewing for killing him in the papers, and reading reporters refer to the Ewing era as some sort of measuring stick to THIS knick team…its laughable.
They didn’t appreciate it then. They don’t appreciate it now.
That’s the problem with being a RESULTS-ONLY fan. You don’t appreciate the process. This team has already been rebuilt from the ground up. Isiah’s taken a lot of risks and SOME of them have not paid off.
Look, even Curry has paid off (Noah and Ty Thomas for Curry and Chandler is good IMO) but NOT TO THE EXTENT that Isiah originally proposed. Not yet at least.
Harlem, you’re a fool.
You’re scraping the bottom of the barrel biatch!!
Morris for Oden
DLee for Tim Duncan
FJones for LBJ
JCraw for Kobe
Rose for Kidd
Steph for Paul and Peja
ZBo for Melo and Camby
Yeah and we STILL HAVE DLEE and Balkman
I think I’m better at this than you. HAHAHA
That’s how some of these “fix the knicks” proposals sound to me. Outlandish. Ridiculous. And a waste of keystrokes and reading time. Thanks Harlem, needed that.
By BARF on Nov 30, 2007
No team will touch Marbury. There is no great player coming back for him. It’s not happening. Only bad players in return.
Right now the cap is almost $56 million. Between Zack, EC, Crawford…that’s what about $35 million per. Throw in the two JJs and that’s another $11 per. QRich another $7. Resign some of the kids…There’s the cap.
Who are we going to sign? They are not going under the cap when Marbury leaves. There is no silver lining. You have to gut the thing and start over. Trade the kids while you can.
By Minnesota Knicks Fan on Nov 30, 2007
What do you think would happen if Marbury walked out during those years? There would be no vote… the PLAYERS would have kicked his ass. He would have been too hurt to play. They policed each other.
That’s what sucks about this team. We can all talk about potential and talent, but we can’t really talk about heart.”
SAY IT AGAIN DAMNIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
By DaVonn Jefferson on Nov 30, 2007
The only team that has won without a true superstar is Detroit.
By HarleminMD on Nov 30, 2007
“Now you’re using Kupchak as a model? Are you serious? what has he done? Your man just called him out this summer, now you want to use his plan as the bible?
Come on.”
Please re read my comments and answer your own question.
“Kobe called Bynum a bum in the Summer. Now you’re saying he’s a great pick.”
Do you think Bynum is a bum?
Answer that question for me.
Bynum is 20 years old guys!!!
Curry is 24 and Bynum already is a better rebounder and defender than Curry.
By DaVonn Jefferson on Nov 30, 2007
Barf,
Throw in Iverson and I’ll give you Nate plus $10 million.
By HarleminMD on Nov 30, 2007
LOL@BARF
He said
“That’s the problem with being a RESULTS-ONLY fan. You don’t appreciate the process.”
That process is going on 6 years LOL…
Keep appreciating it BARF….you make us all proud.
By DaVonn Jefferson on Nov 30, 2007
My point was your man THE GREAT MAMBA did not think he was shit. We all know you think Kobe walks on water so I think he has better credibility than me or you.
By HarleminMD on Nov 30, 2007
Let’s Go Knicks!!!
By DaVonn Jefferson on Nov 30, 2007
Hey Harlem, maybe you should come back to NY
Your starting to sound slow like a southern person.
“My point was your man THE GREAT MAMBA did not think he was shit. We all know you think Kobe walks on water so I think he has better credibility than me or you.”
The Lakers could’ve got Jason Kidd for Bynum..that’s why Kobe was mad…you would be also.
His name is The Black Mamba….not The Great Mamba.
By DaVonn Jefferson on Nov 30, 2007
What do you think would happen if Marbury walked out during those years? There would be no vote… the PLAYERS would have kicked his ass. He would have been too hurt to play. They policed each other.
That’s what sucks about this team. We can all talk about potential and talent, but we can’t really talk about heart.”
KEEP PREACHING BROTHER!!!!
By DaVonn Jefferson on Nov 30, 2007
Hey in the spirit of bloggin’… what do you think Phil Jackson ($24 mil for 2 years???!!!) would do with this team right now? Could he turn it around?
My point is… If yes, then it’s coaching problem we have. If no… then it’s a GM thing.
By Minnesota Knicks Fan on Nov 30, 2007
Let me make sure my copy and paste works so when we lose tonight….I can copy and paste all this stuff you guys are saying LOL…
Maybe if we lose enough…you’ll come to your senses.
When was the last time we had a winning season?
OUCH!!!
By DaVonn Jefferson on Nov 30, 2007
the great mamba, mambo sauce, I don’t give a f*ck what his name is
You know who i’m talking about. its the only person on your brain so i dont think you have to search far.
you’re the one saying “save us Kobe!!!!” 2000 times a night
And I’m slow???
No, slow is thinking we have a chance in getting Kobe. Please throw that in the trade machine and tell how its doable sharp guy.
By HarleminMD on Nov 30, 2007
DVJ, I’ll give you that the Knicks’ starters have to go. One way or the other, the starting lineup has to go through some serious changes.
And, yes, Isiah, to some extent, is to blame because he brought those players in. But, no, this situation is not worse than everything before.
A 40 point loss to a Celtic team that has been dominating is not the kind of game that will make me give up NOT ONLY on the team, but on the WHOLE REGIME. Nah, I haven’t really been playing as much attention to the media as you have…evidently.
Yes, DVJ, appreciate the process. Of which, you, OBVIOUSLY, do not, Mr.57 wins. That would have been a 24 game improvement. Dayumn! Talk about skipping steps. My point isn’t that you’re wrong…it’s that you don’t know what it takes to build a team in general. Add to that that the Knicks weren’t a model franchise before Isiah and we should not be surprised by your change of heart.
Go find another bridge before tonight. The suns going down quick.
Me, I’d rather collect role players first. Then try finding transcendent talents who will grow into their roles as leaders.
Funny, you argue like I was the one talking about 57 wins.
I wasn’t. That was your prediction that came back to bite YOU in the ass. Not me.
By BARF on Nov 30, 2007
Minny,
Why bother with Phil Jackson right? I mean since we’re OBVIOUSLY talking hypothetically…why not bring Red Auerbach back from the dead?
Red Auerbach? I mean, c’mon.
With the cigar puffing and all. Forget Bloomberg’s no smoking indoors garbage.
I bet you Red Auerbach could remake the roster and bring in ALL of the League’s BIGGEST STARS and since Red will be immortal (coming back from the dead does that you know) maybe all of the GREATS on the our roster will also turn immortal and make us a dynasty FOREVER.
I can just imagine it now.
By BARF on Nov 30, 2007
All we need is for the players to show us they hav BALLS (No Homo) tonight.
If we win 3 out of the next 4 or 4 out of the next 5, we will be in good shape.
For those calling for a new GM, that is not the solution. Why would a team beat struggling Minnesota and Chicago (Playoff team) as well as Denver and Utah (2 of the best) and then lose terribly to Boston on National TV? The problem is not that they have a bad GM or coach. We lost 2 blowouts to Boston in about 2 months and also outplayed them in one game. That to me is a characteristic of a developing team. does Miami with SVG a few years back ring a bell? All is not lost.
There is also no reason to cut Steph. Benching may be okay. It is a long season, someone valuable may come on the Market. Artest+Bibby, Andre Miller. All these are possibilities. Marbs could be a valuable trade bait
By Jazz on Nov 30, 2007
DVJ, 53 more wins and I think your prediction comes true.
What do you think the Knicks have to do to make that happen now?
Trade Stephon and Curry for Kobe and…umm…Dwight Howard?
Or maybe Rashard Lewis for QRich?
Which one is better Mr. 57 win-GM?
By BARF on Nov 30, 2007
“Me, I’d rather collect role players first. Then try finding transcendent talents who will grow into their roles as leaders.”
How many role player do you want BARF?
Balkman, Lee, Jeffries, Jones…
What kind of role players are you talking about?
Harlem…if you go back to read some of my previous posts you will see I’ve already done the trade machine thing with Kobe.
You will also see me say fuck Kobe cause he said he didn’t want to come to NY anymore.
I did predict 50 wins or better cause Marbury played great at the end of last year and if he would’ve kept doing that…we would win 50 games this year.
Just wait for tonight.
Let me see what you have to say then.
By DaVonn Jefferson on Nov 30, 2007
“DVJ, 53 more wins and I think your prediction comes true.
What do you think the Knicks have to do to make that happen now?
Trade Stephon and Curry for Kobe and…umm…Dwight Howard?
Or maybe Rashard Lewis for QRich?
Which one is better Mr. 57 win-GM?”
Good one….
This is a prime example of what happens when people run out of things to say.
Let’s see your trades BARF!!
By DaVonn Jefferson on Nov 30, 2007
Who was the only one here saying Lewis deserved that max contract?
Do you remember that?
It was me BARF!!
Orlando now has a better record than anybody in the East except 1 team.
Damn, I hate being right.
By DaVonn Jefferson on Nov 30, 2007
Well, well……
I’ve been cordially invited by PEACEMAN to post here. Well, I’ve posted a few last week about the wacky & pathetic game by game exchanges here.
Gotta admit, it’s getting more & more difficult to stay positive about this season.
Needless to say, it’ll be interesting to see what kind of reception Team Isiah gets tonight at MSG.
Waz up Anti, Davonn, and the gang.
Something has got to change and soon.
Davonn, my boy Bynum has been averaging double-double on most games.
I think the Knicks did a “no mas” after all their shot attempts mainly in the paint mis-fired. The Cs were very successful in contesting and/or altering shots in the paint by NYK with their size, length and mobility. This, coupled with the lack of leadership on the floor and arguably the bench, led the team to become demoralized and it unravelled whatever game plan there was. Too much one-on-one, porous D, no leadership, same things we’ve been posting about the last 12 to 24 months.
By MAK on Nov 30, 2007
BARF, Just wait another month of this crap and then let’s talk. Isaih has lost the team. They dogged him. They are showing him the door.
No one loses by that much. Division rival on the road? Come on. Doesn’t happen.
By Minnesota Knicks Fan on Nov 30, 2007
Minny,
Let me remind you. That expensive coach thing has been tried before in New York and it resulted in a 23 win season. As a matter of fact we’ve have 2 HOF coaches within the past few years. What we need is a tweak or 2. The players on the team are not bad. The problem is how to make them gel and that is a point guard issue. There is a minor issue with Curry and I believe he is more easily replaceable. His upside is his potential. I think what has made him a mess is he trying to avoid early fouls. he had a career year last year because he stayed in the game and avoided those fouls. But for him to be a better defender he will need to shed more weight. Can it be done in 2 years? I don’t know. So many questions, few answers but I know the Celts have our number this year and all is not lost.
LGK
By Jazz on Nov 30, 2007
What’s up MAK…
MinnKnicksfan…
Let it go bro…
Let’s see what they say as this continues.
As the losses continue to pile up….their attitude toward this team will change.
I don’t even know if I can call this a team.
By DaVonn Jefferson on Nov 30, 2007
“Are you better off than you were four years ago?”
F*ck it, don’t just bring back Van Gundy, bring back Scott Layden too.
Layden, btw, said he LOVES being an assistant coach. How ya like them apples. That’s what the circus does to a man. Took all his ego. doesn’t want to be on top of the world anymore. He is HAPPY to abide by “Mr. Dolan’s” media policy.
Jerry West, colangelo, hubie brown. Nobody wants any part of the circus because it takes a tough dude to put up with this shit.
Let’s go IT.
LGK.
By HarleminMD on Nov 30, 2007
My only point was blogging whether we believe there is some coach out there who can get more out of these guys. I think there is.
I’ve given Isaih the benefit of the doubt in the past. Always thought that his players loved him no matter what. Not anymore. I think they’ve turned on him.
That’s just me calling it like I see it.
By Minnesota Knicks Fan on Nov 30, 2007
Changes Coming For Knicks?
November 30, 2007 - 6:15 am
New York Post -
Isiah Thomas promised a lineup shakeup if the Knicks do not respond from last night’s Boston massacre and beat the Bucks Friday night at the Garden. Struggling center Eddy Curry (four points, 2-for-11, three rebounds) after one of his worst outings as a Knick in the 104-59 catastrophe could be headed to the bench, or even Stephon Marbury, again.
Thomas didn’t hear TNT’s Charles Barkley’s prediction that he will get fired if the Knicks lose to Milwaukee tonight, but he sure sounded like a man desperate for a victory.
“We’ll see (tonight),” Thomas said about a lineup change. “It will be an interesting game for us. We can end up winning three of our last four or take another step backwards.”
“Let’s see how we respond. It’s depending on how we play (tonight).”
The bond between Thomas and Marbury still seems strained with Thomas saying they have only a “coach-player relationship” now.
By DaVonn Jefferson on Nov 30, 2007
In case you missed it..let me repeat it
“Struggling center Eddy Curry (four points, 2-for-11, three rebounds) after one of his worst outings as a Knick in the 104-59 catastrophe could be headed to the bench, or even Stephon Marbury, again.”
By DaVonn Jefferson on Nov 30, 2007
Better watch what you say about southern folk, DaVonn….
Check ya’ roots…YOU might be the slow one.
By bronxboy in Md on Nov 30, 2007
All you sheep that think there’s a great coach at home picking his nose, name him right now.
Mike Fratello could not win in Memphis, could not win with MAMBO SAUCE in Atlanta (Dominique).
Flip Saunders? Please. “Starbury” is the first person I heard calling him a genius. We know where his credibility lies. I’d rather listen to Detroit, who said the play calling in the playoffs was terrible.
Van Gundy? Right. He was too stubborn to realize that he should use Bonzi. Kept trying to run a post offense through Yao in the West. That worked great.
Name the coach please.
By HarleminMD on Nov 30, 2007
Again. Get me a real PG and then let’s judge Curry.
Why is it that the few times Crawford initiates the play, he can find Curry for dunks, layups? Meanwhile a penetrating PG can’t find him, get maximum results from him?
By HarleminMD on Nov 30, 2007
Go with Herb the rest of the year. Then get Billy Donovan…
A giant contract may lure him. Who knows?
By Minnesota Knicks Fan on Nov 30, 2007
“How many role player do you want BARF?”
As many as I can get until I find a way to get a transcendent star.
“What kind of role players are you talking about?”
All kinds. If you can’t find a player who plays on both ends of the floor, you pick one up who does one thing well. Those are role players.
“This is a prime example of what happens when people run out of things to say.”
No, its a prime example of being tired of the conversation and the direction its going.
“Who was the only one here saying Lewis deserved that max contract?”
Why do you think I brought it up? Think I forgot?
I never said Rashard was ass DVJ. I said they paid him too much. And with Battie already out for months…they are another injury away from disaster. I’m not sold on the Magic just yet. But yes, they are doing well so far.
***** ****
FUNNY: Berman had a problem with Isiah benching Stephon but is highlighting a “LINEUP SHAKE UP”…double speak goes over people’s heads I guess
By BARF on