whats up defenders,
I hope you all had a happy thanksgiving with your family and friends. I’m still down in sunny Florida (currently about 80 degrees) where I’ve got no internet, hence no updates to the blog in the past couple days. I did want to give you a new thread for today’s game against the Bulls however. Let me know how they look–game is in the garden, right?
both these teams are young, and both these teams have expectations much higher than where they currently sit in the standings.
let’s see what happens.
{ 217 comments… read them below or add one }
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Keeping it real, Keeping it Steady!!!!
WriteOn!!!!
Hating these guys bias writing is the reason I’m here as Anti-NY you know the rest.
Lakers vs Knicks is actually a good game.
Lakers came back trailing by 12 went on a 17-3 run and took a one lead,.
Lets go Lakers!!!!
two point lead lakers took
Anti-NYSN,
You know what’s good.
Cooleyhigh,
Any reasonable person old enough to get online and read this blog should know that everything in the USA is dominated by race and class. Even an unreasonable person who want to dismiss the notion of race and class in American sports need only look at the recent HGH controversy in MLB. Reasonable or unreasonable, unless that person is still stuck in Desert Storm, s/he will conclude that race and class transcends all spheres in American life. If anything, Katrina hoisted the Veil of Hypocrates from Uncle Sam and Lady Liberty. Our nation is exposed. Worst yet, people like the Archbishop of Canterbery is now saying that America has lost its moral high ground since the 9/11/01 attacks on Iraq and Afghanistan. The MSM bought the Presidential bunk hook-line-and-sinker without any of the scrutiny, inquiry and critical thinking that we now see being applied to a basketball team after less than 15 games in an 82-game season. Shame on the MSM.
Defenders,
I often chuckle at the posters on blogs who type “can we just talk about basketball and skip this race and class business?” I just chuckle because not talking about race and class would make the game less accessible to the common fan. The suits are taking over the games folks–NBA, NFL, MLB, NHL. Look at what the NFL did this week putting a PT game on the NFL Network (whether you get it or not). I see many fans rushing to the game right after work so there’s no time to get out of suits and into their favorite paraphanilia. There are certainly fewer of us who can even step up to the exhorbitant ticket and concession prices anymore. The MSM including BSPN will be the common fan’s last resort to accessing the games. It is VITAL that they act and do right by us else we will be bamboozled just like the ones hoodwinked into kamikaze 6 years ago. These guys are dangerous with their ink, vitriol, and hyperboles. Stay vigilant and defend your passions. And when faced with an obvious injustice, don’t just sit there–DO SOMETHING.
Let the karma flow for a win against Utah. Boozer is a beast so we need to take to the body early. Maybe we can send Malik in for the six-quick-fouls
Just bloggin’.
KFLL
Man, the Knicks won!!!
Hope the Lakers lose when the Knicks play them.
Davonne what’s up with your Kobe—he can’t beat the Nets for us!!!
Bravo, Cooleyhigh, Anti-NYSN and Steady in discussion mode. Now that’s an all-star squad. Great stuff beginning with Cooley’s synopsis at #146. TMAN and HAREWOOD would also be like love and gold on that thread — precious and solid. Write On.
Knicks must win tonight to sustain momentum or else booing and chanting, drummed up by N.Y. media in the first place, will resume and media will continue its relentless endeavor to foment disruption of the Knick organization. If Steph cnn play the same game againts Deron
Williams as he did against Ben Gordon, the Jazz can be contained. Carlos Boozer is another matter. He is averaging 25 pts. per game. Neither Curry nor ZBo should commit excessive fouls trying to stop him. Let Boozer commit fouls trying to stop them. knicks can absorb Boozer’s 25 pts., but Williams and Kirilenko must also be contained.
LGK
DEFENDER SCOUTING REPORT, Part I
The lamp has been rubbed the right way by a Knicks’ victory, so it is with great pleasure that I attempt a new scouting report for our game tonight against the Utah Jazz. I have added a video coordinator feature at the end for you armchair coaches. Let’s pretend I hired the next youthful video coordinator (like Mike Brown or Lawrence Franks) likely to become head coach.
Now you too can approach the game like an NBA coaches with full staffs. You really need to check out the Deron Williams remix. Wow. Just to renew some hope and remind us of the possibilities, I may also add a Stephon Marbury remix tape as a supplement to this report.
Enjoy.
CAN KNICKS AVOID SOUR NOTE AGAINST JAZZ?
This question will cause Knicks Fanatics to begin biting their nails, like parents listening to their kids at their first piano recital, Sunday night: After such beautiful orchestration against the Bulls (a win is beautiful), will our NY Knicks avoid hitting a sour note against the tough, Northwest Division leader, Utah Jazz (10-4)? It is too easy to answer “Hell Naw.” But, we are Knicks Defenders, vigilant and faithful. We like winning.
Yes, winning felt so good, even against the fragile Bulls, beaten into submission by a combination of tactless Scott Skiles and the disruptive tactile feeling of Kobe’s reach into the United Center. It reminded us that the Knicks could win and that while they are in the bottom third of the Eastern Conference, today (Sunday morn) they are only three games out of contention for a playoff spot and their record confirms that they are better off than Chicago and Miami. Even better, there are 70 games to make good on that pre-season promise seen by the Defender Fanatics.
The Knicks’ next task is a tall, tall order. While they will face a team that the Knicks were designed to pummel, the methodical and talented Utah Jazz have recently exhibited every winning trait that the Knicks have been struggling to show us. Winning this game will be tough, but not impossible with a lot of effort and some long missing MSG luck. The Knicks need to play some damn near perfect ball, similar to how they played earlier in the season. The luck may come with Utah visiting the Mecca 27 hours after playing and beating the Rasheedless Pistons; very hungry Knicks, guided by a good game plan, might be able to pull this one off.
Last year the Knicks split the two game series with Utah. The Knicks, with only eight players after the brawl suspension, won the first game 97-96 on a beautiful last second overtime layup by Starbury and lost the second in February 104-102, also in overtime. We face Utah again on January 30, 2008.
(And how sweet would it be to have regained our confidence in time to face the Boston Jovial Green Giants?)
MEET THE UTAH JAZZ
Overview of the JAZZ
At the time of this writing the Jazz are 10-4 (the stats for the Detroit victory are not included in all of the analysis here). They score 106.8 points per game and allow only 100.1 per game. They average 97 possessions per game and turn the ball over 18% of the time. Their fg% is 48%. Utah is primarily a jumpshooting squad heavily reliant on ball movement and assists. Sixty-six percent of their points come off assists. Their offense normally runs (11-12 seconds) deeper into the shoot clock than their opponents.
Their defense is pretty decent. Opponents average 98 possessions and turn the ball over 18% of the time and average 46% in field goal shooting. They average 30.9 free throw attempts per game and hit only 76%. Defensively, the Jazz seem to force teams to take jump shots as opposed to allowing them to play an inside game.
Utah is a good rebounding team, but should be greatly challenged by New York’s rebounding corp.
The Coach
Arguably the best coach in the league, even without a Championship, over an extended period of time. Admittedly I am biased because Jerry Sloan, the Bulls very 1st draft choice in the 1966 expansion draft, was a key to those Chicago Bulls teams of my childhood and I patterned my defensive game after this 6-time defensive team selection. My imitation resulted in getting street nicknames like “The Fly,” (flypaper was too long),“Terminator,” and just plain “Sir Hack-a-lot.” That was the same Jerry Sloan that Isiah loved watching and emulating. Now that was a player. Just ask Frazier.
A solid team in the mold of Jerry Sloan, unquestionably one of the best and least discussed coaches in the NBA. I can hear my own drool over his accomplishments, but Insidehoops.com doesn’t even rank him in the top 11 or for honorable mention. They rank George Karl, Scott Skiles and Flip Saunders over him. That’s a testimony to ignorance, for sure.
Check it out. Twenty-two seasons as a coach. 16 consecutive winning seasons until 2004-2005. 17 seasons in the playoffs. .600 regular season winning percentage. Only .497 (87-88) in the playoffs though. Unlike most coaches, has built squads from the ground up. Yeah, I like this guy. Understated. Underrated.
I will repeat, the Knicks have not played a complete good game as of yet!
We are over due! The talent on this team must get over their fragile mental approach!
Tonight mt be the night that our talent matches a solid mental approach!
I believe the key to knick victory will be to shut Williams down! Marbury/Jones/Nate should hound him full court
every moment of this game to take him “out” of his game. Boozer is not unstopeable by any means! He needs to be hounded
full court the whole game. I believe we will see the knicks break out of their shooting funk! If that happens,
we may blow out a team that no one believes we can beat! We need our first A game of the season! Lets bring it!
Lives, I think it’s a considerable waste of your appreciable brilliance to plot ways our Knicks can beat a team like the Utah Jazz. Sure, anything is possible and on any given night any hyped up low-rent team can beat a coasting elite team. But I think it’s a waste of emotion to get too wound up over a game we know in our heart of hearts we have no business winning. How about we just hope for the best, that the guys show consistent effort for 48 minutes, take good shots, hustle for rebounds, share the ball wisely and leave it at that.
It starts with recognizing that the Knicks are not yet an elite team. That said, the good news is that there aren’t that many elite teams. We would have a truly wonderful year if we can consistently beat the non-elite teams and challenge and steal a couple, few games from the elite teams. Honestly. Beyond that is pie in the sky and it’s just not necessary. Beat the guys we know we should be able to beat. Let’s start with that. After a year of that, we make that big trade/draft pick that gives us the pieces to be an elite team. We spend the following year, much like the Jazz did last year (the Jazz didn’t have the confidence that they were truly an elite team til late last season — this is not the same team the Knicks faced early last season), gelling, becoming symbiotic, the gestalt greater than the whole and all that…well, you know.
The year after the gelling, the Knicks are then an elite team, consistently crushing the lesser teams and ready to take lots more games from the other elite teams. That’s how it goes in the NBA. There’s a pretty steady progression to this stuff, drafting of a no-brainer bona-fide game-changing stars (like Duncan, LeBron) aside.
If Knicks win this game, it’ll be amazing and worth celebrating. But I refuse to get my hopes up for more than just a good, solid effort.
On another note, I don’t think MODI has to do a big review. One of the reasons I became a defender is because Zeke is kind of like a token, representing the aspirations of Black folk in sports management. The MSM is taking their few pounds of flesh off any Black athlete who commits some transgression or the other. That’s been going on for some time, now. But it’s the coaches and GMs who are getting it in the teeth as well.
Bill Simmons leads that charge. He has never had anything positive/balanced to say about any Black in management save possibly Tony Dungy and even then it’s begrudgingly, extremely muted. He makes sure to ride to death any “slip” made by Blacks in management (jeebus shouldn’t there be a statute of limitations on Denny Green jokes?). Black people can play (he luh he some Allen Iverson), sure, but a job that goes beyond athletic instinct, that requires planning, sound strategy, self-control? Nuh-uh. If MODI were to check the score on that front he would find that Simmons over the years has accumulated a severe props-deficit when it comes to Blacks vs. Whites in management.
But be that as it may, thanks to MODI’s great work, I’m very satisfied with zeke’s performance to date. He’s not perfect, I can admit he’s made some not insignificant mistakes or at least shown questionable judgement on occasion.
But, for me, he doesn’t need to be god, he doesn’t need to be perfect or the GOAT GM. Guys like Simmons will point out supposed flaws, implicitly comparing him to GMs that might do that particular aspect well. If a Black GM is (say) great at strategy but not at (say) building team rapport (or vice-versa), then guess what gets hyped. There is no big picture, balanced, responsible coverage, because that doesn’t sell as well (and, perhaps doesn’t suit his personal agenda).
But near-perfect GMs are extremely few and far between. Most have significant blindspots, it’s a matter of weighing the pluses and minuses and comparing that net effectiveness with the net effectiveness of the others. And on that score there is no way any reasonable person can come to the conclusion that zeke is worse than the average GM.
And I’m ok with that. The near-perfect Black GM will come some day, we just haven’t had the raw numbers over a long stretch of time as Whites have had. Dag, look how long it took for a Tiger to dominate golf. And if the Simmons’ of the world are still around when that day comes, that GM will surely have a lower profile than even Buford has today. That’s fine. We who watch will know the score, and that’s enough.
I’ve been somewhat ambivalent about Marbury as a player. Generally, I’ve viewed him as too inconsistent of late. But it occurred to me that the modern elite teams cannot get by with a starting point guard who averages less than 6 asts/game. Just doesn’t happen any more. No, I’m not counting Cleveland cuz they use Lebron to distribute as much as any designated point.
There may be something to that pass-first point guard stuff. Is it just the times?? Toronto’s backup point (Calderon) is better than most starters, yo.
Good AM Defenders! I hope this post finds ALL of You and Yours in the best of health and in the best of spirits.
We ALL truly have so much to be thankful for and we must exercise the right to be THANKFUL, DAILY verses YEARLY…
Steady, great posting, and you definitely know what I mean when I say, “To thine own self be true, and to no other be false.”
Anti and Post-Up, great posts as always, but I have to mention, I love the way your minds’ work and I sincerely appreciate the honest and earnest perspectives you two leave on this THREAD. Thorough GENTLEMEN! Recognized & Duly Noted!
LIVES (Resident Poet), great Pre-Game Analysis, and you are Write-On about Jerry Sloan the Player and the Coach. That Bull’s team with him Van Lier, C Wlaker, B Love, Boerwinkle, were tight, tough as nails, but just could never get over the hump. I remember a Bulls vs. Bucks game when Oscar and Kareem were a tandem and Sloan step on the head of the Bucks PG, I can’t recall his name, but he and the Big O were about to come to blows…That was a very HOTLY contested game…Oh the game back in 60′s was so interesting to watch, especially when the ABA entered the scene. He has also been a winner as a coach and his players will go to war for him. Plus he is a GREAT X & O coach. He never gets his due! No rings I suppose! That’s entire discussion for another day…THNAK GOD FOR THE MEMORIES!
As it relates to OUR BELOVED KNICKS, Cohesion and Health are the key words for this TEAM. Injuries have robbed Zeke of the opportunity to truly settle on a 8 to 10 Man rotation that can pace this TEAM through the Regular Season (2nd half of the season into the playoffs, the rotation will tighten a bit, but the warriors will be ready and steady, if needed).
Balkman, MCollins, Jeffries, and Q, have and still are injured to some degree, and 3 of 4 are the SF’S Defenders have discussed and critiqued and worried about for the most part. If we can get Q healthy, his shot will come, but irregardless, he is still a warrior and will do the other things that can help a TEAM win…Jeffries and Balkman are the same way, just less offensive punch (that’s why Q’s ability to shoot the trey is cirtical, cause he helps spread the floor). ZBO and Curry are struggling with the Turnover Bug, but I had mentioned awhile back that this would be an issue, but I also stated if they hit the boards and hit there FT’S that would help to make up for those lost shots (so far neither have been great from the line, and other than ZBO, boading from the 5 spot has been putrid, plain and simple). Unfortunately, Curry is still a defense liability and soft as Taffy on the boards, which puts his teammates in bad situations. ECITY HAS TO STEP UP HIS GAME ACROSS THE BOARD. It is his play that is slowing down the cohesion of this TEAM. Poor passes out of the Double-team, advesrely effect sharp and precise ball movement; slow D rotations on drivers and cutters to the hoop (lay somebody out and they will stop coming up in there); horrible D on the pick & roll; not aggressive enough on the class; Let’s be honest Defenders Curry should have been BENCHED not MARBURY as it relates to defense…Just being honest…Defenders can challenge my position on this, but I am game for a little verbal sparring…ZBO has his issues (the BLACKHOLE) but he has HEART and HE IS WILLING TO MIX IT UP. When ECITY decides to focus on the other critical areas of the Game, the COHESIVENESS of this TEAM will be tight, and OUR BELOVED KNICKS will be difficult to deal with…We need more ECITY on the floor diving for loose balls like he did on Saturday. Challenging more shots like he did in spurts on Saturday. This Dude is the Lynch-Pin, and ZEKE knows it…I believe we’re healthy now, let’s get jiggy and each player give full effort and concentrate on his role and sacrifice for the GREATER GOOD…COHESION DEFENDERS! COHESION!
LIKE US! LOL LOL LOL
Just Bloggin Defenders! Let’s see if my critique of ECITY forces AFRICAN to bust out of his chains, escape, and re-enter the THREAD breathing FIRE…Then the Verbal Sparring Begins…
Peace & Blessings to my Defender Family!
Keep it POPPIN!
I said:
Whoop, before the wisenheimers chime in, yes, there’d be props-deficit right if you consider just the sheer numbers, just think in terms of a per-capita basis
Follymach
Do you really believe if the Knicks play to their potenial, that the Jazz are a much better team?
I’m talking about both teams bringing their A game!
I think this losing streak that zapped this teams confidence will come to an end tonight!
Boozer? He was on the verge of being a D leaguer until his “Break out.”
Crawford has of yet to play even close to his A game! Zach and Curry both having an A game at the same time?
Call me out tonight on this but the Jazz will get Thumped tonight if the Knicks shoot at least 50% from the floor! Balkman
will be the X factor and Lee may break out of his funk! If we play D on Williams the Jazz will fall apart!
Tonight the Knicks will renew the preseason buzz that we seem to have lost here!
Peaceman say:
In a word, yes. If everybody brings all their ‘A’ games to the table, yes, I still think the Jazz win. However, the prime reason the Jazz are much more likely to win than the Knicks is cuz of the last word in your question — “TEAM.” Not only do more of them consistently bring an ‘A’ game every night, they already know how to play well as a team and can make up for each other if one is having an off-night. The Knicks aren’t there yet. That’s ok, it’s not the end of the world.
Like I said, anything can happen, it doesn’t mean you stop rooting for your team, I’m just talking about expectations and expenditure of emotional energy in high hopes for a win. It’s not necessary. We win the “sposeta” games and we’re not even sweating this game (and, yes, i agree re injuries and such spoiling our cohesion and winning potential so far).
p.s. man, that’s a crazy set of ‘ifs’ you got lined up. IF those worked out, sure, i’ll buy that argument. i mean, that’s why they play the games, you never know for sure how things are gonna work out, but i’m not gettin too high. I am steady, if not steadfast. just sayin
p.p.s. knicksdee, by now you know everyone’s i.p. signiature, can’t you confirm if African is at least just lurking??
If we win tonight its gonna be a miracle. The way we are playing now we have no business competing with Jazz. Everybody have to bring their A game tonight or our ass is grass.
Marbury needed to be benched because he wasn’t following the game plan, wasn’t playing defense. He is also the leader of this team and, when you lose to a sad team like Miami at home, drastic changes need to occur.
Curry is terrible on defense, but he is also young. Marbury is a true veteran in this league and defensive lapses such as the game in Miami against an average guard like Jason Williams is unacceptable. A lapse against a tough matchup is easier to accept; against Williams is not. If you watch that game, Marbury is guarding nobody, in between the doubling and Williams. Can’t accept it.
I totally disagree that Utah is a tough game. NBA is based on matchups and we should be fine with this team. Marbury and Zach have to step up on defense. Our bench needs to continue to contribute. IT needs to continue with the philosphy of playing 10 guys and the best 7 play the second half.
Charles, I think you need to explain again the Black GM reasoning you mentioned in 161.
You also reason that the Knicks should be happy to just compete with Utah. They are not an elite team. They have a good guard who plays within himself (midrange shots), an old-school PF, and a classic Euro-tweener in Kirilenko. Their biggest asset is they play HARD. If we match their effort on the court, we should be fine.
A team like Golden State, has a bunch of players that we don’t match up well against. We also don’t have a shotblocker and that hurts against a team with Davis, Jackson, etc. Those two killed us.
Again, Charles, do you think that Isiah needs to play second to a more prominent basketball executive? Please explain.
This whole idea about getting somebody to manage Isiah is ludicrous. It came from Mike and Dog when they interviewed Breen. They are bunch of assholes who don’t know shit. Isiah is that man with all the credentials to run the Knicks. Its either him or get someone else and let him go. On the other hand if he gets a coach (by the way I liked the way Hanners handled the summer team) and moves back upstairs at some point, it may not be such a bad thing.
Rush,
Agreed. I also liked Hanners in the Summer League, but handling veterans is a different animal. It would be interesting.
Another comment on the article that states R.C. Buford is the best GM in the league. Popovich, the coach of the Spurs, hired Buford. Do you really think Buford is completely responsible for that team’s success? That’s similar to MSM giving credit to Grunwald for the Zach/Frye-Francis trade.
Also, he did not draft the greatest player on that team. He also did not draft Parker. Parker would have been traded if Kidd accepted San Antonio’s offer. Something else to consider when “the greatest” mantle is thrown around. San Antonio had the lottery handed to them that year, then Duncan had the schooling of Robinson in his early years.
Buford had nothing to do with the core of that team. How is he the greatest GM?
If you watch Stephon’s play on D, two galring mistakes continue to plague him. The one mistake has also been noted while watching Jamal–consistantly going below the pick instead of through or over. And for Stephon, while guarding the point at the top of the perimeter, he has a tendency to look back to see how his teammates are situated/positioned on the court. That slight turn and look back is often enough to allow the PG to drive by or make a critical pass/assist.
Note to Stephon: Leaders lead and never look back to see who’s following. Otherwise, you need to have confidence in your teammates that they’re doing the right thing and providing help defense. Have the guys tell you where the weak side is or if you should be guarding his strong side (often going left is a challenge for a righty). It has worked well when you stay in front of the PG and allow for Jamal or Taz or cheat into the passing lane, getting tips/steals towards a fast break. Deron is a good PG but let’s not send him to the HOF right just yet. Put that NY vice on his &$$.
KFLL
HarleminMD, if I go on too much (and I think I have already) it won’t be long before some msm! cry comes floating down from the rafters. i’ll stick with my feeling on it, you stick with yours. If you look at the matchups, position for position and still think, considering how all the players usually play, that there’s reason to be very optimistic about prospects for a Knicks win, hey, free country, I’m not stoppin you. You say the Jazz are not an elite team when all they do is win at a pretty good clip. Fine, I’m not on the Jazz payroll, I’m not part of their fanbase. At the end of the day, we’re still rooting for the same team.
I didn’t say that. I never said that. Whether he plays second fiddle to a “prominent” basketball executive or not is immaterial to me. I just pointed out above the example of RC Buford who has a very low profile as Spurs GM even tho it can be easily argued he’s one of the top three GMs in the league (if in fact not the best, period). I prolly should’ve been more wary of using an article from controversy-mongering Slate, but just to say that prominence doesn’t necessarily mean anything.
I’m just speaking for myself when I say that, for me, it’s not obvious that, MSM BS aside, Zeke is an elite GM or an elite coach (say, top four or five in the league in either category). But just because it’s not easy to make a “SLAM DUNK” case he’s an elite guy, doesn’t mean he actually sucks, which is what the MSM would have you believe. It’s not important to me that he be the obvious choice for Very Best GM (or coach) in the league, tho of course I’d love that to be the case. I’m satisfied that it’s obvious (to rational, fair-minded people) that on balance he’s no worse than average and arguably comfortably among the sub-elite. One thing to note is that it’s pretty impressive that he can be rated so well in either category and in that sense he’s a pretty rare bird.
I’m only invested in Zeke to the extent that he gets his due in balanced, hype-reduced, responsible reporting. But I am not Morpheus and Zeke is not The One.
What Up Harlem in MD. I hope your holiday was festive and an enjoyable.
Now, let me get this straight, Steph is the Leader; then what is CURRY?…If I’m not mistaken, wasn’t it Zeke that demanded the offense be run through ECITY, which by default Harlem makes ECITY a leader too. You also referenced one incident regarding Steph, while ECITY is guilty of the SAME every game. It is difficult to play ball with a Big Man that offers you no help if your man gets by you (on the Pro level the player you’re guarding will get by you or lose you), presents no resistance, grabs no boards, then begging and clamoring for the ball on the offensive end. When Duncan Garnett, or Howard demand the ball, their teammates will attempt to keep their Big Men happy. Why? Cause thier teammates know they will run the floor, PROTECT THE MIDDLE, GRAB THE CRITICAL REBOUND…In other words, the BIGS have their back…
Harlem I am not in any shape or form denying that Steph is not a knucklehead sometimes, but we have not seen an expansion of ECITY’S game, and we have seen the expansion of Steph’s game (he played very good defense last year and in the last few games; we can not say the same for ECITY defensively and in other offensive areas either; Yes, he is young, but so were the other two and the third is acutally younger…and last I checked, that is why Zeke was pissed at Steph, lack of D). DEFENSE IS TEAM DRIVEN!
Keep it POPPIN!
Wait a minute guys,
It’s a good thing we have to actually play games rather than vote on who wins!
Lets go back to the begining! Lets go all the way to Boston preseason game two!
The Celtics played thier asses off and were out for Blood! The Knicks lacking the mental block
of recent, BEAT the Best team at this Moment in the NBA! Yes, Pierce, KG and Allen all logged
almost 40 minutes a piece! We beat them hands down! Denver was no slouch either!
Now I’m susposed to believe that the Knicks can’t hang with the Jazz? Bullshit!
The Knicks have beat themselfs of late! The move Zeke made on Marbury was on point! Shake his ass up like a wake up
call and move on!
A win tonight will bring back the confidence and promise of this Knick team! That is what we lack!
Confidence makes you play better Defense and makes the hoop look the size of the ocean when you shoot the rock!
Though they have been playing like it, this is not last years Knicks! Zach and and more experienced Balkman
will prove my point tonight! I’ll go out on the limb right now, and say we will beat the Jazz in impressive fashion!
Let me repeat, Marbury and Jones playing full court D on Deron. Kill the Jazz’s head and the body will die!
Balkman will reintroduce himself to Boozer! I can see the MSM excuse after the Knick win tonight…. the Jazz were tired
from back to back games! Yeah, Right!
Steady,
Exactly. Steph looks sometimes like he is expecting Oakley/Ewing as a help defender. Maybe he’s supposed to have help, but it never comes. The offender then blows by him. He did a good job on Gordon though; I’d like to see him do it on Williams. He matches up well with him, although Deron has a very quick release. But then again, so does Gordon.
Charles,
I misread #161. I still disagree that Utah is considerably better than us. We’ll see tonight.
Cooley,
Whatup Cooley. Thanks. Hope your holiday was great also.
Curry does deserve to be benched, but we don’t have a true backup center available. If James were active, IT probably would have benched Curry at some point. Regardless, I think your leader should be held in higher regard than the player who would only have 2 years in the league had he attended college. Yet, I agree that he should get some of the blame because he hasn’t display the desire yet. I still think the PG position is getting killed every night. Baron killed us. Chauncey posted 25 pts, 15 assists. Mobley hit the game winner on us. He needs to step up.
Cooley,
My PRAYERS are w/ you, as you and your family go through this LIFE experience. The 23 PSALM always provides
a LIFT for BELIEVERS.
Regarding Knicks, I must say that I agree w/ you that Curry is the WEAK link defensively & on the boards. Regardless of
how we we spin it, when opposing players ‘Go TO the Hole’, getting their shot blocked, is not a concern. What has
disappointed me the most about Curry is that last year he made great strides, but still needed to grow in other areas.
I thought if Curry came to camp in in tip-top shape, it would send a message to the league and more importantly to his TEAM that he was ready to REACH the next level. Curry does not understand that being in great shape allows you to
to block a shot, get the extra rebound, move your feet w/ smaller guys & beat your man down court. It appears
that Eddy uses the first 20-25 games each year to improve his conditioning. This is over a quarter of the season and is certaintly a mistake. The team as a whole has UNDERACHIEVED, and Curry ranks near the top.
The MSM has changed tactics. Since it appears that they are unable to get Zeke fired. They have regrouped and their OBJECTIVE now is to ENSURE that a RIFF continues between Zeke and his floor leader. If the floor leader continues to
remain PISSED, then hopefully he will not play the way the COACH wants. The MSM-those DEVILS. Unfortunately Steph
is PLAYING their game, and does not realize their objectives. Steph needs lessons in CRITICAL THINKING, before he becomes KNEE-DEEP in their BS.
The Knicks can BEAT Utah!!! Let’s Go Knicks
Peace & Blessings
Also, Curry is not a youn player. He’s been in the league SIX-YEARS. Youth has not affected Dwight Howard,
Lebron, Amare, Tyson Chandler, Okafer, and others. Eddy was youn 2-years ago, but he is now a veteran.
At some point he has to be held ACCOUNTABLE.
Peace & Blessing
If you check the box scores on our 12 games, you will see that the guards have killed us. From the first game with Cleveland. Daniel Gibson had 24 pts, 6 3-pointers. Iverson killed us. Jameer killed us. the Williams shot. Nash? Mobley’s shot (with a bad groin).
We need better defense from the PG position. IT’s early statement was that everyone must guard their man and rely less on help. We don’t have a choice. Curry is not going to be Mutombo tomorrow. It’s not his strength. He should become a better shotblocker, but we can’t have every guard skating on us or we won’t win.
Statesman,
Agreed. Eddy should be held accountable and nopw is the time for accountability.
Harlem,
Agreed. It is frustrating to play with that type of big man. I recall a heated (but respectful) exchange here where we talked about the big man commanding the ball and figthing to get in the sweet spot for either a dunk or baby hook/J. IMO the Big Fella did that gamely. Others thought that the PG must get the bigs the ball. I then gentlemanly concluded that the culprit shall sit. Well, we know what happened next–Stephon was sat in Phoenix. Truth is that Eddy was to sit that game too but lucked out due to injuries. Look at the problem in Miami and listen to Shaq. He covets a PG who could deliver to his sweet spot on the floor while JWill pounds the rock. The lack of effort the MSM talk about for Shaq is him not exerting too much energy when he knows his PG is happy doing fancy feet with the rock. So to Cooleyhigh’s point, the two are joined at the hip. And the culprit shall sit whether they like it or not.
KFLL
What up Defenders!
I’ve been out for a few. The welfare department sent me on a little vacation.
Been reading a bit.
Statesman:
What is your problem with Nate? It seems like you have a deep dislike going on for our Calvin Murphy clone.
You’d get over it someday. You’d realize Nate is probably the best player on the team.
Lives:
I’m here, steady as ever. I still think Zeke made an error handling the Marbury situation. That led to the eight game losing streak. The players are/were pissed at Zeke. Let’s see if he can regain their trust. Whenever a talented team plays that way, it’s because there’s friction going on.
They play, but at the first sign of adversity, they distruct. We’ve got to get it all back together. This team is much better than they’re playing.
On a different note. SI had the players with the worst winning percentages. Guess who was numero uno. JCraw. Eddy was fifth. Not a good list to be on.
African’s back!! I knew my blabbering would eventually pull you from the mists
It’s not the same grousing without ya.
Pardon me if this has already been linked, but this is a pretty interesting article from Village Voice: Steph Infection.
Folly:l
I had to. It’s not good to blabble to yourself. I felt for you.
Peace:
Why do you keep riling up the good folks here with the same ole Artest trade you had on the table since summer?
The funny thing is that it still works. Go figure.
IT could have benched Marbury for a longer period if Mardy didn’t turn into ABS with his “knee injury.” It was his moment to shine, and he stunk it up.
I still believe the PG of the future belongs to Mardy, despite his weak showing on the road trip.
African,
Welcome back. Word was Dross jumped you at a Knicks game(LOL).
I have nothing but love for Eddie Murphy. I remember Calvin MUrphy, and N8 is no Calvin Murphy.
N8 is part of the problem, not the solution. Check the box scores on the last 4 games. Is N8 in a slump, or is this N8. I believe that he is somewhere in the middle. N8 can’t feed the post on a team w/ post-play as it’s strength.
I will not belabor the points on N8 becasue he (like Malik), will not
decide if the Knicks make the play-offs or not.
Time to improve the DEE.
Peace & Blessings
OK here we go…
Steph and Isiah have kissed and made up….it’s time to move on from that.
Who was it here that said we don’t match up with the Jazz or that we’re going to most certainly lose to the Jazz?
Does that person realize the Jazz haven’t won in NY in 3 years?
Moving on…
To the blogger Tom..
Are you a Celtics fan? The Celtics are the best team in the East and the 2nd best team in the league.
The #1 team is the Spurs and guess what?
Their players aren’t logging anywhere near the amount of minutes the Celtics players are.
I pray the C’s can stay healthy but we’re not even at the 15th game and it’s already a big question.
Good luck…
Marbury’s defense is horrible.
Who here said it should be the big man’s responsibilty when Steph get’s beat?
Yeah Curry and Zach could be better on the D but look at a player like Amare….
He is not known for his defense AT ALL!! He get’s abused just like Curry and Zach on the defensive side.
When Nash gets beat (all the time) nobody makes a big deal about it…..I don’t think it’s a racial thing….do you guys?
By the way…Stephon Marbury should not even be in the same sentence as the word. defense lol
I wish I could say the Knicks will win tonight but you just never know which team you’ll get.
Isiah’s job is safe as long as he wins. He is lucky that certain other teams have started off slow just like us.
Shit, remember how hot the Rockets were? Well they have 7 losses compared to our 9.
The season has just started so let’s get all the kinks out now and go strong from now till the end.
DEFENDER SCOUTING REPORT, Part II
The Probable Starting Lineup and Other Floor Units
Deron Williams, PG,
Ronnie Brewer, GF
Mehmet Okur, FC
Carlos Boozer, FC
Andrei Kirilenko, F
Jerry Sloan is not afraid to use a very deep rotation so you can see significant minutes from Jarron Collins, Paul Millsap, Gordan Giricek, Jason Hart, Ronnie Price and Matt Harpring especially if Boozer and Williams experience foul trouble.
Jerry Sloan relies heavily on Deron Williams to guide this team. Four of his top five floor units include Williams at guard. Those units are as follows:
1. Williams – Brewer – Kirilenko – Boozer – Okur
2. Williams – Giricek -Kirilenko – Boozer – Okur
3. Williams – Giricek – Harpring – Millsap – Collins
4. Williams – Giricek – Kirilenko – Millsap – Boozer
5. Hart – Brewer – Harpring – Boozer – Okur
To date the best units on the floor in terms of point advantages are units #2 and #4 which each include Wiliams, Giricek, Kirilenko and Boozer. The weakest unit statistically is the one with Millsap and Collins on the floor simultaneously, #3. That unit has a plus minus differential of -11 and appeared in four loses and two victories. Unit #5 appeared in four losses and one victory.
For a player on the floor for 40% or over of the team’s minutes, Millsap has the highest positive +/- point differential per 48 minutes of playing time at +13. Boozer has been the key to victory to date. He has appeared in 8 victories and 3 losses. Kirilenko, Millsap, Brewer and Williams have each appeared in 7 victories and 5 defeats.
In-depth View of Starting Five and Selected Reserves
Deron Williams, PG, 6′-3″, 210 lbs. The point guard of the present. He came of age in last years’ playoffs and helped the US Team win a gold medal this summer in the Tournament of Americas. He is averaging 17.4 ppg, 8.3 apg and 1.1 steals per game. He is hitting 42% from the arc, but averaging about 4 TOs a game. This team goes where Deron takes them. Reminds you of Stockton, huh?
The scouting report on this guy is awesome and pretty accurate. “Very talented. . .high basketball IQ. . . Good shooter and passer. . .very strong for a point guard. . .nice crossover (true that). . .able to drive to the basket and absorb contact. . . very good at pick and roll (no sh*t). . .A true leader. . . Average defender. . .”
Deron, who just overcame a toe problem, played a whopping 41 minutes last night in which he scored 21 points and 14 assists. He absolutely abused Chauncey Billups by getting deep into their defense and racing Chauncey through the pick and roll. Williams also overcame three turnovers with three blocks, a steal and four rebounds. This guy should be tired from the game and the travel.
Bonus: See http://www.deronwilliams.net. It is easy to be a Deron Williams fan when you see him play. Nice Intro.
Ronnie Brewer, GF, 6’7″, 223lbs. This NBA legacy (dad balled in the league for 8 years) is a 2d year youngun’ out of Arkansas. He has earned a starting role and is playing solid ball. He is averaging 13.5 ppg on 51% shooting including 33% from the arc and 85% from the free throw line. He also brings about three steals a game and a couple of assists. He shut down Mo Pete (0-6) in the Utah victory against the Norleans.
The scouting report notes very little but that he is versatile, a good ballhandler and has one of the oogliest shots in the league. See Shawn Marion and compare.
Ronnie had a solid game last night. He scored 11 points in 34 minutes and was enfuego from the charity stripe at 3 for 3.
Mehmet Okur, FC.
This is a problem matchup for Eddie, because Okur is a mid-range jumpshooter with a nice touch and if Eddie is guarding him, Eddie will not be guarding him. Okur is the player Eddie would always lose on the pick and roll. Always. This is an easy kick out from Williams, especially since Eddie “shows” (steps out) on th pick fast enough to become a second pick for the Jazz guard. Knick fanatics will cry at the obvious mismatch. Are we going to see zone as the proposed solution to this problem? Malik Rose? Jared Jeffries? Randolph Morris? Forfeiture? Or can Eddie just get Okur in foul trouble on the other end? I would pick Jared Jeffries in his face.
In Okur’s most recent game against the Knicks and Eddie Curry, he scored 29 points while fighting a stomach virus.
Last night Mehmut played 38 minutes and scored 12 points on atrocious shooting (4-16). The Knicks would only be so lucky to get that kind of performance. Okur added seven rebounds and three personal fouls to supplement his three assists.
Carlos Boozer “The Bruiser.”, FC. 6’9″, 266lbs. He is averaging 24.2 ppg, 11.5rpg and 2.6 assts. He is shooting 53% from the floor. He abused Detroit last night with 36 points on 17-20 shooting, ten rebounds and three assists in 38 minutes of play aided by the fourteen assists from Deron WIlliams. Although he worked extremely hard last night, he showed that he can pour it in on the second game of a back to back when he scored 31 against Memphis the day after he gave the Jazz 27 in a victory over Seattle.
The scouting report reads “very strong on the boards. . .chisled upper body. . . nice touch around the rim. . .very effective hook shot. . . athletic. . . focused defensively.
Andrei Kirilenko, F, 6′-9, 223 lbs. Solid vet, 1st rd 24th pick by Jazz in 1999. He has started all 13 games this season and is averaging 33.8 minutes, 10.6 ppg, 6.8 rebounds per game, 6.8 assists per game and 2.8 blocks per game. He’s solid on the free throw line at 80%. . His defensive game is looking mighty sweet when you throw in a steal or two. Energetic and long wing span.
Andrei will turn the ball over a few times (about 3) during the game since he touches the ball a lot and is able to drive to the hoop. He also has trouble guarding big guys without fouling. Most of his scoring has been under the basket within 5 feet. He can hit the tre but has been atrocious at 13%, well below his career average of 30%. Unfortunately, the Knicks expected defensive posture can cure that malady as the Knicks defensive stare, wave and “Boo” specialists watch him shoot while five feet below the arc.
He played 36 minutes last night and scoredd 11 points.
How To Stop The Jazz
Sheesh. I have no idea.
The Knicks starting lineup will probably be
Stephon Marbury
Jamal Crawford
Eddie Curry
Quentin Richardson
Zach Randolph
Their keys to victory are as follows:
1. Make Deron Williams work extra hard to receive the ball. Deny him the ball.
2. Make Deron work on the defensive end with frequent guard penetration.
3. Outrebound to increase second shot attempts and limit their attempts.
4. Hit freethrows as a result of personal fouls to be forced by guards and post-men.
5. Alternate pace to give Knicks fighting chance in 4th quarter.
6. Instruct Eddie, Jared or David Lee to guard Mehmet closely away from the basket.
7. Do not let Deron take step back tres or 15 foot tres. Stay in his mug.
8. Front and box out Boozer. Force him to work hard in the post against ZBO.
7. Fast break when possible to get an advantage. Take the ball into their gut.
Offensively. Thus far the Knicks have been inconsistent offensively, due in large part to the team’s inability to make in-game offensive adjustments starting with the point guard play. This is a game where tempo management will be critical. The Knicks, on paper and when mentally healthy, can handle the Jazz with an troublesome inside-outside game and persistent guard penetration.
The Jazz have no answer for the constant pounding of the ball into the post. Kirilenko and Okur can instantly find foul trouble. Better spacing of the floor so that Zbo can make his favored face-up to the defender drive without getting stripped on the backside would loosen him up a bit – as would an occasional kick out from the black hole the ball seems to enter at warp speed when it is passed to him. Hopefully Zeke has also advised Zbo that a bounce pass into the post is also a nice tool to prevent defenders from reaching and poking the ball from behind Curry in the post. Quentin and David Lee may also do well in the post and are actually less likely to get frustrated after missing a shot.
This is also a game that is tailor made for Crawford to drive to the basket. Lately, he has been less likely to sprint to the hole and drop those difficult running jumpers and airy gumdrops through the hoop. He may be a little spooked by those inconsistent palming calls that the refs seem to use as discriminatory anti-Knicks game control. (Again, is there a Stern memo on this bunk?). Also in this game, Marbury should be unstoppable offensively. He is fantastic on the drive and would probably hit more of his layups if he drove not expecting a foul call as he kissed the ball against the glass.
The Knicks miss the offensive power of Qrich and would benefit from a good all round game from Nate Robinson.
Defense. The key to the defense is hounding Deron Williams. After the Detroit game, he should be relatively easy to wear down by the fourth quarter. Isiah may do well to place Stephon on him for the majority of the game and direct Stephon to deny him the ball followed by assigning Balkman, Jones and Jeffries on him at strategic points. To deny Williams the ball takes away the most comfortable aspect of their offense and wears the team down.
Most of Utah’s turnovers come from bad passing and ball handling indcating that Utah is susceptible to pressure.
The Knicks could also win this game on the boards and at the free throw line. David Lee loves rebounding against this squad.
I hope to see a lot of energy in the form of Jared Jeffries, Nate Robinson, David Lee and Renaldo Balkman. I would count on them wearing down the starting five and playing the pick and roll better than Eddie Curry will.
Special Things To Look Out For
A rare appearance by Peaceman’s draft choice Morris Almond who has played in 6% of the team’s minutes.
The need to sit Eddie Curry in favor of Malik Rose, Jared Jeffries and Renaldo Balkman because of the repeated success of the pick and roll and backdoor play.
Lack of intensity and effort will result in a quick double digit deficit.
Coach’s failure to call timeouts quickly and sit players will result in a depressing double digit deficit.
Lot’s of cheering if we win.
Goodies From The Video Coordinator: Let’s Go To The Video Tape
Armchair coaches check out Jazz beat Raptors to see the Jazz operate.
Get up on D Will’s gane with a little
Deron Williams Remix. Wow.
And just for fun check out
Deron Breaking you You Down with tha sweet crossover.
LGK
Fixing the Knicks Without Trades
November 26, 2007 10:54 AM
The fact that this article even exists — let alone sounds convincing — is something James Dolan must note in his ongoing internal debate about whether or not to keep Isiah Thomas.
Mike Moreau, who works with David Thorpe at the Pro Training Center at IMG, wrote an article about the Knicks for Hoopsworld, imagining he were talking to the team. Here’s one key part:
Eddy Curry and Zach Randolph: You cannot be on the floor together. This is a bad offensive scheme — it is not your fault. We need one of you on each unit and can interchange you throughout the game. Whoever has it going the best that night will be the guy on the floor down the stretch in the fourth quarter.
Zach: You are going to be the anchor of the second unit. Your attitude, effort and behavior last night in the Garden was a disgusting display of disrespect to our fans. You have a lot of making up to do to them. In order to learn to handle this assignment of coming off the bench, here is Manu Ginobili’s cell number: 1-800-BE-A-PRO.
Eddy: This is your opportunity to be the consistent, dominant post player you have the ability to be. We won’t just dump it in and stand around like we have been. We will create more action around you to give you more room to work. We question your commitment to being great. This is your chance to prove us wrong.
You guys are both overweight — this is your fault. Both of you need to lose those five bags of sugar you are carrying around in your uniforms. You will room together on the road with our new assistant coaches: Jared Fogle and Clay Henry from Subway.
Of course, proposing to get production out of guys like Jared Jeffries, Stephon Marbury, and Quentin Richardson is easier said than done. (An assessment of how they have done so far.) But Moreau has some notions about what could make it so. And I’m certain that Jamal Crawford is not best used standing still in the corner watching.
There are some comments on the Hoopsworld post, and one of my favorites is “now fix the Bulls.”
LittleStarsInc (7 minutes ago) Report Violation | Ignore User The Knicks are beyond saving. I say this after tearfully watching them since 1987. Here is the obvious solution: Blow up the garden, drag the Dolans into the street and beat them like dogs, and hit the delete button on Thomas, Marbury and the rest of the heartless, gutless team. Oh – a lone bright spot !!!!!!!!! The nets are coming to brooklyn soon. znice2000 (14 minutes ago) Report Violation | Ignore User Fire Thomas.
Bring Back Jeff Van Gundy
He’s the one to teach the Knicks Defense.
He was a miracle worker with Charlie Ward and the Mod Squad of 1999
I bet he can do a lot with the current assembly.
Z,
Queens
the_real_kman (26 minutes ago) Report Violation | Ignore User
Curry is no different from Jerome James or Jackie Butler….They have size but nothing else. He will be out of the NBA in a couple of years.
Falsestart – Curry will be driving the short bus.
donthrash17 (36 minutes ago) Report Violation | Ignore User Well obviously the answer would’ve been to trade Curry last year while he was still hot – THEN get Randolph. Then they’d have room for lee. falsestart14 (3 hours ago) Report Violation | Ignore User Curry is one of the laziest and most selfish players in the league, (I think think the only player who is worst is ricky davis on the Heat). I was watched every single knick game this season, last season,… and he NEVER passes the ball out of the the double or triple team. Benching him would be a good decision. Randolph is no better at passing out of the double and is extremely turnover prone, but he can at least rebound. blaming Marbury for all the Knicks problems was just wrong. The blame needs to go on the whole entire team for just a lack of effort and a cumlative basketball IQ that would require the starting five to ride the short bus with their coach! the_white_ime_udoka (4 hours ago) Report Violation | Ignore User Absolutely right that David Lee should start ahead of either Randolph or Curry. The other night Lee played 11 minutes and had only 1 or 2 fewer rebounds than Randolph and Curry, who played 30-plus. Burying Lee on the bench is the worst decision made by an NBA coach this year, in my opinion. petemachine (4 hours ago) Report Violation | Ignore User
I like this guys spirit – obviously Crawford, Lee and a few other have grossly underachieved because they have to play beside the twin black holes. However, why start Curry instead of Randolf. He used to shoot over 50% and he is a career 75% free throw shooter. They cant play together but at least Randolf is a real player, Eddy “4 rpg” Curry should be the 20 minutes a night bench change up. No one would have an answer for him and he has always played better with more limited minutes because he is so out of shape. Also I am a Raptors fan and I want remind Knicks fans that David Lee is not Dennis Rodman. He is much more like Jerome Williams (also averaged 10 rpg from the bench) who Knicks fans will remember. If he was on a team where he was not always compared with Curry, he wouldnt seem nearly so special.
In any event curry and marbury are net negative players. Talent or not you would rather have an NBDLer who plays hard. A shame that the knocks fan base is so impatient they will never truly rebuild
waiti (5 hours ago) Report Violation | Ignore User i think the bulls are worst than the knicks. no one expected the knicks to be contenders.
African: Welcome back. I agree with Peaceman and Cooley that the Knicks
have not played up to their potential, not even to the caliber of the game they played against Denver.
A few positive notes. (1) The Knicks took care of the ball better against Chicago, where they had a total of 16 turnovers, including 5 by Curry and 5 by ZBo. If E-City and Zach can improve on that stat, and the rest of the team respects owning the ball, the Knicks can stop beating themselves. The Knicks also missed 16 foul shots. If they had made half of those free throws, they would have beaten Chicago by 16 points. (3) Balkman seems to be recovering from his earlier injury. His D and intensity is needed to contain Boozer and perhaps Kirilenko.
(4) Nate has not as yet played the way he exhibited during the Summer
Vegas League or during the exhibition season. He just needs to develop some confidence. (5) Q haz that injured elbow yet pulled down 15
rebounds against Chicago. (6) Playing 10 guys didn’t hurt the team,
and maybe the way to go to sustain floor energy. I see us taking
Utah. LGK.
Hey DVJ,
A whole bunch of “look what the cat dragged in”. Pasting your living room walls with pin-up crotch shots is very unbecoming. (LOL)
KFLL
Good stuff Steady LOL
What’s even more becoming is how we New Yorkers stick by an executive that continues to drag our proud franchise through the mud LOL…
Now that’s funny.
I meant more unbecoming
What’s up Defenders…………
Who has the magic words to led us forward tonite. It’s going to be tough. The Jazz play great together.
@DVJ #189
I was just reading that article on “How to fix the Knicks without trades” was going to link it here .
Why, is what I want to know. Why can’t Curry/Zach play together?
Zach is a power forward…..EC is a center..
Remember Robinson/Duncan?….Remembering that Ewing/Cartwright didn’t work.
It’s possible to design an attack with both.They both don’t have to stand in the paint at the same time…duh.
Zach can hit the 15-20 footers……duh,duh
Someone tell me why not?
DLT
You will answer your own question by 11:00PM tonight!
The results tonight = the Truth! Good or Bad!
Write on D L T.
Any reasonable person watching that Bulls game can look at the final play where Zach hits that clincher from the top of the key to see what the coach that some NYK fans support see. A determined and controled lead at PG with great handles. A low post juggernaut in E-City (in position) and hi-post PF who can hit a mid-range J. If there’s one player IT repeatedly bemoans losing is Michael Doleac because of his pick-n-pop proficiency. We have that in a more athletic and younger Zach.
KFLL
Mike Doleac???
Peace & Blessings
New Post guys!
Statesman
Doleac is a Scholar and a Gentileman. From Utah!
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