The New York Knicks (2-7) should be well rested and ready to go when they taken on top-flight point guard Baron Davis and the Golden State Warriors (2-6) tonight at 7:30pm. The Knicks look to stop their current losing streak which is now at six games, but the Warriors won’t go without putting up a fight, having just defeated the Raptors in Toronto. Don’t let the Warriors’ record fool you into thinking this will be an easy win, they’re a western conference playoff team who just got Stephen Jackson back and have now won two in a row after starting the season 0-6. Ellis isn’t shooting as well thus far this season. The knicks need to make sure to box out Andris Biedrins who is a walking double-double not unlike D Lee, only taller.
The keys to victory for the Knicks will be the same throughout the season: good ball rotation (don’t over-dribble, don’t over-rely on freelance scoring) get the ball inside, reduce turnovers, make free-throws (assuming you’re getting to the line), guard the perimeter scorers. The knicks simply must do all of these things if they’re going to turn it around this season. Sink or swim.
NBA.com has an interesting preview article here.
I’ll be unable to watch this one as I will be away from the TV. Hold the fort down as always.
{ 282 comments… read them below or add one }
Also, if you are a Knicks fan, you know it in your heart, and no one can tell you otherwise, not a fellow Knicks fan, not a reporter, not a blogger, not anybody on earth. I said some, not all. So the way I see it, the “broad brush strokes” statement is simply a ludicrous accusation without any merit.
Off topic a bit. Today’s NYTimes has an articles about JETS fans abd the meadowlands. Just outrageously funny. Seems like the Jets fans are looking for something to cheer about.
John Q
The link to where Curry said that is Espn.com, Chris Sheridan’s
” Isiah Headed for the Hot seat tuesday night at MSG.”
Post-up Prince!
That email to MSG reads like the PRINCE you are!
Thank you!
The Knicks Winning streak starts here. Mark my words and cherish them as truth.
Boomann
I’m sorry I left you outof that roll call!
Your right, the knicks season starts tonight!
You and I are on record!
I KNEW days ago that if Isiah did this for tonight’s game it was THE ULTIMATE indication that Isiah Thomas is using Stephon Marbury as the scapegoat for Thomas’ failure to turn around the Knicks franchise.
http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/basketball/knicks/2007/11/20/2007-11-20_stephon_marbury_returns_to_starting_line.html?ref=rss
Let’s get this straight for the record.
Bench Marbury in Phoenix, where he used to play. Keep him on the bench for 4 games while the rusty Mardy Collins starts at the point.
Now that basically the entire western world is against Marbury, have him return to the starting lineup so that when he gets announced tonight to the garden floor, he will be showered with even with more boos than the he got during all of last November.
Great coach.
Isiah Thomas is a Machiavellian snake of a GM who would better suit this team as a college scout than a coach or president.
Stephon Marbury is penciled in as the starting point guard for the Knicks on Tuesday night against the Warriors.
Marbury may miss Wednesday’s game due to the death of his aunt, but will start tonight. Isiah Thomas has obviously decided to move on from Marbury’s controversial exit from the team last week, and it’s still unclear whether Isiah gave him permission to leave or not. At this point, it really doesn’t matter
Terrible…just terrible.
This sh*t don’t make no sense, I’m serious.
Try to make some sense out of it.
He must be TRYING to get fired putting him back in the lineup like this.
Hate to say it but, it’s the CBA all over again.
MAKES NO SENSE AT ALL.
If he is a starter now, he was a starter all damn season.
starburyfan, how does your last post make any sense?
i fail to see the logic.
second to last post i mean…#7
Beware Stephen Jackson ! Beware Al Harrington! These guys have been Knick killers for as long as I can remember. If we don’t bring it tonight, they will steam roll us.
I want something to cheer about as a group instead of consoling ea/ other. Let’s Go Knicks !!!!!
I’m going to repeat “the season starts tonight” in my head 100 times til it sinks in.
GO NY GO NY GO !!!!!
BARF,
I thought to myself days ago while they were still on the road trip, that if Isiah put Marbury back into the starting lineup at home, it was to humiliate him in front of the garden crowd.
Obviously I don’t expect Marbury to get cheered tonight during intros. Maybe the announcer can sneak Isiah’s name in before the game without an opportunity for the crowd to boo him, but they’ll definitely boo the sh*t out of Marbury tonight.
JQ
Yeah Stephen Jackson is back and better than ever.
I’m not expecting a win tonight. Good effort, but not necessarily a win. I don’t want Stephon back in the starting line up but I can’t argue against it either. I prefer Stephon at the SG position and not the PG. But that’s not a popular thought…obviously.
“it was to humiliate him in front of the garden crowd”
Yeah, I don’t know how you could think Isiah “wants” that to happen.
I think Stephon is a dude who only plays “his best” with his back up against the wall. He needs to be challenged. He needs to have something to prove.
But that Isiah is thinking “I want Steph to be humiliated in front of the Garden crowd”…I don’t know about that. Sounds convoluted. For what? To accomplish what?
I can’t wait for the Knicks to win for nothing less than getting the conversation here back to basketball. This soap opera, mind-reader writing notoriously attributed to the NYC MSM is getting contagious. There’s too little information being put out and too little analysis of the games. All that’s left to discuss is the psychology of the coach and players.
That’s the circus.
The Knicks should wind tonight just to make Stryfan get over his depression.
Marbury played some nice defense against clippers and Sacramento. Not so much against Denver. IMO, he should not be put back in the starting line-up just yet, simply as a result of his reaction to being benched. I think the idea was to bench Marbury and Curry. It wasn’t supposed to get out of hand. Is Isiah being dictated to from high-up that he should put Marbs back in or he is still just toying with peoples egos?
All the same, the team needs to win tonight
LGK
From NBA.com
The point guard said Thomas told him at Tuesday’s morning shootaround he would be back in the starting lineup for this game.
“I’m excited about playing always, and to be able to come back home and start and get back into the flow of things is always a good thing,” Marbury said.
From DailyNews
Marbury, however, is still upset about the demotion and when asked about the entire episode, said, “To be honest, not a whole lot of good has come out of this.”
“The pen is Mightier than the Sword” – Edward Bulwer-Lytton
It doesn’t make sense to put Marbury back in the starting lineup!
If he does get booed it’s not like he doesn’t deserve it!
Maybe it’s his last game as a Knick????
Who knows, I agree that we need a Win to get back to Hoop
talk! Ken Berger has an interesting trade senario!
We take on two bad contracts from the kings and they throw in Artest!
Yeah, right!
“It’s been difficult, but at the same time I’m weathering the storm,” Marbury said. “I had two deaths in my family, so coping with that and trying to continue to maintain as far as what we have to do on the basketball court has been a little bit different as well. So I’ve made some adjustments.”
His aunt’s death may have been the reason Marbury was gone before he could be interviewed after practice Monday. There was a report the whole team was kicked out of that practice, but Knicks spokesman Jonathan Supranowitz called it an “erroneous report” and Thomas said he hadn’t done that since sometime last season.
Forgot to include link
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21900881/
Stephon being perceived as the scapegoat to the Knicks bad start is NOT IN THE BEST INTEREST OF ISIAH
What about Isiah wanting Stephon to be a scapegoat makes sense?
Steph lives next door to him
Steph is considered a friend
Steph was his first big trade
Steph was involved in the trial
Steph’s contract is the team’s biggest
Steph’s been in NY almost as long as Isiah
Steph’s not an expiring contract
Steph’s not dirt old
Steph’s not eligible for medical retirement
Steph’s not easily traded
Steph’s not a cheap buyout candidate
Why would Stephon “the scapegoat” be a “good thing” FOR ISIAH?
The NYC MSM is wrong. They’re being provocative.
They hardly ever make sense.
When do they make sense? When they report the facts. Outside of that, their agendas habitually cloud their views.
One last question for the day before I skip til the game:
After the Zach trade, why is it that some folks wanted to trade Lee for Artest?
Do you think they don’t like Lee? Or maybe they recognized the holes in the Knicks roster?
****
I would -without apology- take a break from the Knicks if Isiah were fired. I don’t root for the Knicks because my favorite colors are Orange and Blue or because I’m nostalgic of past Knick teams. I rooted, stuck up for, educated others and bashed Bulls fans throughout the 90′s Knicks era. I loved their spirit, their toughness, tenacity, workman attitude…I wasn’t in love with their “winning culture”…I wasn’t in love with the team because they won. I loved following the team cuz they weren’t the most athletic, the highest jumping, the best jumpshooting or the most “nice” bunch of guys. They were operating in the harshest media conditions, they were brash, rude, rough and tumble and Ewing was surrounded by CBA over-achievers and defensive specialists.
They were also veterans.
Isiah doesn’t have a team of veterans. What he does have is the type of roster that plays hard for him. They’re young. Improving. Yet losing.
If they fire Isiah here, I will have to take a break until I know FOR SURE that this isn’t Indiana all over again. Someone even wrote about Carlisle and Walsh coming here? Insane. Is that what we’re doing here now?
What has happened in Indiana?
New coach takes old team a bit further than the previous coach, Isiah, and then for years, those players are replaced by older, more respected vets, who over time suck the culture of young developing talent. It went from a player’s coach atmosphere to a more restricted atmosphere. Indiana isn’t better for it.
Larry Bird killed Indiana because he didn’t like Isiah. The players revolted and were slowly let go, traded…
If Isiah goes, the turnover won’t be immediate but its eventual. Isiah goes, the contracts don’t all of a sudden become easier to let go of. As a Knick fan, I’m not ready for another dismantling period. As a Knick fan, I’m tired of Dolan having to please the NY press. In MY opinion, Isiah’s done a fine job getting the roster to the point it is in. Because I think he did a good job of putting together A DECENT team (not great!) under such tough circumstances, AND with the work ethic of him and his staff, I’m sure he will right the ship. I think he deserves a shot at developing this team and continue building a contender. I don’t think he needs just a year to build a contender. He’s won everywhere he’s been. He’s drafted young talent. He’s coached young developing ALL STAR talent BEFORE.
And his latest acquisition was Zach Randolph. What’s everyone’s problem? Losses? Look around, everyone’s losing.
With time, understanding and some long overdue patience, the Knicks will not only be a winning team but a franchise with a culture…AN IDENTITY. They don’t have one yet. If I had to describe their on-the-floor identity, it would be: tough, young, long, athletic, offensive minded, fast but inexperienced because our best player’s are far from their prime.
I’m tired of the Knicks being the victim of the NYC media’s culture. The team had to rebuild. It has been rebuilt. Now, let the HALL OF FAME POINT GUARD coach, instill his system, develop his young guys and continue acquiring players he thinks will help the team. We got Zach Randolph and FJones for sh!t.
What’s everyone’s problem? The drama? Are you kidding? Is it that bad?
I’m just not ready for the team to be knocked down again. Isiah IS NOT what is holding the team back. The team needs time (and space to breathe) to develop it’s character and chemistry. You take Isiah out and you take away the team’s BEST LEADER!!!!
I’m audi til game time. Gotta buy paint the Home Depot and do some wood cutting.
PS. GS is a problem. Don’t sleep. Stephen Jackson has just gotten back. Don’t say I didn’t warn you.
Barf,
You are also a GS fan, yes ? Tonite should be fun for you.
Yeah, I’m a GS fan but I’m a NY’er.
I’m rooting for my Knicks. But at the same time, I won’t be surprised if GS wins. They present match up problems.
Curry doesn’t have someone he matches up well with. Biedrins is quicker and more of a PF playing Center. Curry doesn’t do well against the likes of PF’s masquerading as Centers. Curry gets called like Shaq in his prime and smaller defenders always get the benefit of the doubt in Stern’s NBA. I would have liked to see Curry scratched out of the starting lineup for this game. But the politics of starting lineups doesn’t allow coaches (by coaches I really mean ONLY I.T. in NY) to field different lineups according to matchups. I hear DJ Mbenga was just signed after being waived by Dallas. Nellie is familiar with Mbenga’s game (maybe he’s the reason DJ is in the league) and likes his mobility.
Stephen Jackson on Zach is a killer matchup. I’m stumped thinking about how ZBo can overcome it. Jacks is always playing his hardest. He’s another Artest. outside shot, tough defense, veteran savvy and the willingness to be the biggest asshole on the floor which translates to frustrating his opponents (see: Nowitzki circa last year in the playoffs). They have Brandan Wright off the bench which will allow Zach to have some successful post possessions but his length and speed won’t make it easy either.
MBarnes is out tonight according to one of the articles provided earlier. That means Al Harrington will be starting. If he’s still playing like he was playing last year, QRich shoul dbe able to handle him. He likes to hang out in the perimeter. But if he is playing like he was rumored to be playing during the preseason camp, he may be the Warriors best frontcourt player. He was said to be rebounding, shooting lights out and blocking shots on the perimeter. We need a healthy Balkman and a sharpshooting QRich to help ease the pressure on our bigs.
Azubuike is nice. He’s a lot like the ex-Blazer backing up Bowen…whose name skips my memory, only younger. He’s big, strong, solid but streaky shooter and defensive minded. Nellie’s been impressed with his hustle and non stop effort which earned him a starter’s spot while Ellis was out. Ellis will be backing him as will a raw Bellinelli.
BDavis is the truth. Steph can’t hang with him.
What’s our only shot at winning?
Dictating the tempo from start to finish. If GS lulls this team into running with them, it’s a wrap. If JCraw turns into JChuck and starts heaving shots early in the shot clock, it’s a wrap. We need to establish the post presence all game and hit the mid range shots. GS doesn’t have big leapers or strong shot blockers. I do not anticipate seeing Mbenga much (who is a shot blocker) and Biedrins will block a shot from drives and penetration more than he will in the post. Camby was killing our guys in the post on Saturday. It was painful to watch.
Outside of our guards playing a very slowed down game, we lose. Plain and simple. Sorry to have to say it. There’s a small margin for error with GS and this team doesn’t have the execution to flat-out, out “up and down” the Warriors. Our biggest strength is our bigs in the post and rebounding. That is also the Warriors biggest weaknesses. But when one team is led by Stephon, JCraw and Curry and the other is led by Baron Davis and Stephen Jackson….
for me, toughness in the leaders prevail. The leaders who are able to dictate the pace of the game and get their team’s “on the same page” will always win.
Blame it on the team’s struggle with consistency…not on Isiah trying to get Stephon booed out of the Garden.
“Take a step forward lads – it’ll be easier that way.”
Robert Erskine Childers, to his firing squad
How about you show some heart and play for something besides your bank accounts?How about you play for the guys on your team and not only for yourselves?You should know by now that you can’t get caught up worrying about what is out of your hands.What’s done is over and done.Move on.IT’s situation is his own,he’s a man and will deal with it.Move on, or curl up and die.That’s the bottom line.What are you gonna do?The game really isn’t all that complicated.Stay in front of your man, help on defense, rebound, run, share the ball, and find the open man.It’s the same game you’ve, hopefully, been playing all your lives.Truth is, Nate is proving to be the biggest man on the squad in many ways.Keep playing within yourself young man!Write now, and I can’t believe I’m saying this,you are my most valuable Knick.You can’t measure true heart with a ruler or a scale!Gentlemen, our Knick lurkers, I’ll say it again to make sure you heard it clearly.
“Take a step forward lads – it’ll be easier that way.”
Robert Erskine Childers, to his firing squad
Gut check time,LGK.
IMO, IT knows more basketball than anyone at News, Post, Day and the NYK blogs combined. Second guessing what he sees in practice regularly has becoming comical. The fans are starting to believe too much in their press clippings as “the most knowledgeable fans”. Puh-Leeeeze!
KFLL
Watch the game tonight and see for yourself what conclusions are made about this PR campaign from within.
I already made up my mind about this three days ago. I didn’t think he’d stoop so low as this, it is the ultimate sign of BS.
Stephon has been the best starting point guard through 8 games, so WTF did Isiah bench him for four games, and what did it prove?
If Mardy were ready, it would have proved much because they wouldn’t have come back 0-4.
In an Eddy Murphy Raw voice: What has Isiah done for me lately?
I don’t have selective amnesia about this team. This team hasn’t been rebuilt just once, it has been rebuilt and rebuilt. Remember the phoenix suns east they tried to be a few years ago? that was an Isiah team too.
forget about waiting for the playoffs again, right now it is win or go home.
Isiah has hijacked this plane and the knicks are flying too low. what happened to the 46 wins we predicted collectively just a few weeks ago? we’re looking at 2-7 right about now.
I have an idea, you hold your ground and I will hold mine.
I remember what was said before last season started and Isiah owes me a damn playoffs series from last year, so by all accounts, this team needs to go into the second round. right about now it doesn’t look like he is going to pay up.
Enough with the underachieving. This team deserves better. The city of New York needs a winning basketball team, not a team that makes excuses about losing and blames failure on the basketball court on the MSM. This has been going on FOR YEARS.
everybody has a right to their own opinion about everything under the sun. that goes for the knicks as well.
a ny press person.
a season ticket holder.
a person that has seen just one knick game this season on tv.
somebody who only hears about the knicks on david letterman and conan o’brien.
a twelve year old who have never played basketball.
an NBA player.
on this blog I can only write what I feel, think, see in the team I watch every year for 82 games a season since the 80′s. i certainly read and listen to other people’s opinions about the knicks, but if i were to alter my opinion of the team in any way to accommodate fellow knicks bloggers there would be my point for me to have a knicks blog.
*meant to say no point.
It may be more than 24 hours before I’ll be able to update the site depending on the wifi networks along I-95. I hope the knicks win tonight.
worth repeating:
“Take a step forward lads – it’ll be easier that way.”
Robert Erskine Childers, to his firing squad
How about you show some heart and play for something besides your bank accounts?How about you play for the guys on your team and not only for yourselves?You should know by now that you can’t get caught up worrying about what is out of your hands.What’s done is over and done.Move on.IT’s situation is his own,he’s a man and will deal with it.Move on, or curl up and die.That’s the bottom line.What are you gonna do?The game really isn’t all that complicated.Stay in front of your man, help on defense, rebound, run, share the ball, and find the open man.It’s the same game you’ve, hopefully, been playing all your lives.Truth is, Nate is proving to be the biggest man on the squad in many ways.Keep playing within yourself young man!Write now, and I can’t believe I’m saying this,you are my most valuable Knick.You can’t measure true heart with a ruler or a scale!Gentlemen, our Knick lurkers, I’ll say it again to make sure you heard it clearly.
“Take a step forward lads – it’ll be easier that way.”
Robert Erskine Childers, to his firing squad
Gut check time,LGK.
whats been going on for years?
A moment of clarity
I’ve been visiting a few other boards and reading the comments of these supposed to be Knick fans and they have been duped by the media. I’ve never seen a group of fans turn as quickly as Knick fans have on Isiah. The people are no longer concentrating on what happens on the court like double over-time games and close finishes except for in that Denver game and this was all while Stpeh and Zach were in and out of the lineup. It’s much more then a witch hunt it’s become a public day lynching. They are having fun by writing about the Knick problems and I’m pissed about it. New Jersey, Chicago and Miami all have gotten off to slow starts and these were suppose to be three of the better teams but their records in this early part of the season mirrors the Knicks. Where are the people questioning John Paxson, Scott Skiles, Lawerence Frank and Pat Riley? Where is the media backlash? Not to mention we are only like 9 games into a 82 game season. I’m not going to go on with my Knicks Defense but I will say this……Ride or Die!!
Johm Q
Did you find that Article where Curry stated the
media has gone crazy and it’s affecting the knicks play?
BARF
Take away your name at the Bottom of your post@ # 23,
and I’d swear I was reading Jeff Van Gundy!
booman says
“They are having fun by writing about the Knick problems and I’m pissed about it. New Jersey, Chicago and Miami all have gotten off to slow starts and these were suppose to be three of the better teams but their records in this early part of the season mirrors the Knicks. Where are the people questioning John Paxson, Scott Skiles, Lawerence Frank and Pat Riley? Where is the media backlash? Not to mention we are only like 9 games into a 82 game season.”
Amen brother…
I say we keep Isiah and let him do what he can do.
It would be idiotic to fire him after only 9 games in the season.
I do love that Warriors clip. Some of the best voice cracking in cinema history.
How do you get the attention of a player who is making $20 million per year, the best talent on your team? You bench him. Marbury was not listening to his coach. He doesn’t stay with the play. He isn’t always patient with the post players and sometimes he takes too long to feed the post, causing the bigs to have to exert a lot of energy to fight of the defendant before receiving the ball.
The benching was purely a reaction to Marbury’s inattention to the last few minutes of the game.
If a coach cannot bench any of his players that does not listen, he might as well retire.
Phil Jackson never benched Jordan when he broke a play off BECAUSE HE ALWAYS WON. If Marbury wins, I’m sure he will receive more latitude.
Star players deserve discipline too.
Yeah I saw that Peace. Thanks for the hook up. Now how do we get them not to watch TV, listen to the radio, or read the papers for the next 72 games ??? lol.
The benching was purely a reaction to Marbury’s inattention to the last few minutes of the game in Miami.
I don’t think it was only the Miami game that got him benched. I think it was the fact that he has been thoroughly outplayed by the opposing PG almost every game. Crawford should be on notice next !
I’m really not feeling this Marbury cat anymore. He needs a one way ticket out of town.
True. I say Fred Jones should enter for Craw at the first traveling turnover.
peace
when it comes to the knick’s slow start, i feel like jvg looks. racoon eyed, bald and STRESSED OUT.
as a fan, i’m as hard a worker as jvg is a coach. but i dont let the media pluck my expectations. i dont think the knicks’ start is a reflection of bad coaching or bad roster management.
it just served as a wake up call to ll the fans that thought the knicks were further along than they really are. i didnt want artest cuz i think he’s cute and cuddly. i thought he would fill a need. until the team’s needs are filled, we will be subject to inconsistent, unpredictable performances.
and for me, threatening to gt rid of the coach is more harmful than it is helpful. actually firing isiah would be catastrophic.
but we will all soon see soon enough. and some of us will have more fun than others rubbing each others face in it. mark my words.
this is why i like to follow alot of different teams. when one is having a rough spell, i follow others. there are too many games to that are left to play and this team is still too young to think they are going to be the pistons…or the rockets…
i think some of us were more delusional than optimistic.
barf says
“and for me, threatening to gt rid of the coach is more harmful than it is helpful. actually firing isiah would be catastrophic.
but we will all soon see soon enough. and some of us will have more fun than others rubbing each others face in it. mark my words.”
Amen brother
So what’s the starting lineup? Is Q at the 3?
KNEE-DEEP (1 + 1 = 3),
Pat Riley has gone public and stated that maybe SHAQ should go to the bench and not start.-How Manipulative
Scott Skiles has taken Ben Gordon out of the starting lineup, and he is now coming off the bench behind Chris
Duhon-What a Snake. Coaches will often tinker w/ their line-ups early in the season. Only in New York
where the MSM smells blood, and the naive follow, does Zeke get labeled as Manipulative for a line-up
change. I believe that it is rude to insult a man in his house, but it is a sign of love to inform
the uninformed. KNEE-DEEP it appears that you are allowing your EMOTIONS to keep you from being rational.
You have bought in to the MSM-Soup. CBA? What’s next JFK,MLK,RFK, BALCO? Was Zeke the killer and not OJ?
You are KNEE-DEEP in the BS.
@BARF- Great analysis, you have missed your calling. If I could add, Jerry Sloan wrote the book on
how to beat GS in the play-offs. Make them play D for 17-18 seconds and they will quit and give
you a lay-up. Do not try and run n gun w/ them. Pound it inside. Great to see someone talking about
“On the Court”. IT IS GETTING WACKY IN HERE.
Peace & Blessings
Since people are getting down with some serious quotes, here’s a couple!
Leadership is a combination of Strategy and Character,
If you must be without one be without the Strategy. GEN Schwarzkoph
An Army of Sheep Led by a Lion would defeat an Army of lions Led by a Sheep. Unknown
Leaders who win the respect of others are the ones who deliver more than they promise,
not the ones who promise more than they deliver. Mark Clement
Now, What does this all mean? Hell if I know, it sounds impressive though! lol
Leaders who win the respect of others are the ones who deliver more than they promise,
not the ones who promise more than they deliver. Mark Clement
Amen Brother
Marbury acknowledged his actions contributed to an 0-4 road trip, but he indicated there was no intention to hurt teammates.
“Of course, it had something to do with it, but this was a personal issue,” he said. “This wasn’t between myself and my teammates. It was between Isiah and myself.”
This is the reason I want Marbury gone. If he can’t notice that he through his teammates under the bus with his actions and not just Isiah then he is truly delusional. How can you leave your team who you are a captian for and then turn around and say this wasn’t between me and my teammates? That is an incredibly stupid statement to make.
Booman,
You hit the nail on the head man. Marbury is all about ME and ME alone. If someone has that attitude, EVERYTHING is a personal issue. Me-bury aint no rhodes scholar either.