www.KnicksDefense.com

The take from CNNSI’s Chris Mannix seems to be a form of back-peddling.

Listen guys I’m just as heart by the recent results of the road trip and I’m as down on the way in chich Marbury let the team down this weak with his me first big ego antics.

All that said I recall posting on one of Blogzilla’s recent post that I had a bad feeling about the Denver game. I figured that after playing a hotly contested double OT game in which the seemesd to have pulled out all stops to win and came up short that there would be nothing left in the tank come Denver. What I failed to take into account was the high altitude the team was playing in and the near personal vendetta George Karl has against Zeke. YOu add hose factors into the mix and hage ass whuppin was due.

I didn’t watch the game and things came out sort of as I expected them to.

All that said the Knicks ought to have won the Sacramento game, where in position to take the game against the Clippers and save for some questionable officiating once again fell short of the Ws. This is not that a terrible a team. Just take into account what other factors have played into the recent string of losses. Rush aptly pointed out the absence of Zach and that certainly has affected his play on the two occasions he was available to play. Balkman recently returned from injury and still had to get himself back into playing shape. Marbury was a total disaster with his antics and that is probrably the one thing that could have been avoided if Marbury had decided to act his age.

I’m still a die hard Knicks fan, I want the team as it is now constituted to have a chance to succeed together and not be shredded or torn apart yet. I concede that Isiah might have to go but I would rather let him play out his enure to see what he can do with the team. What’s there to gain with axing him now or even in December. More chaos more discord. And to think that the goal this year was the playoffs. If Zeke is axed do any of you think a new coach GM etc etc will turn the team around over night? No! Why b/c then these guys will have to adjust to a new program. That is better left to teh off season. So in that vein I say keep Isiah here lets see how he plays off the rest of the season. Let’s see if he can turn this thing around.

I agree with Post up Prince. These boys in Knicks unis need to get together call a team meeting and let out what needs to be let out. Some sincere apologies need to be made. And interestingly enough not all by stephon. Sure he neeeds to man up and live up to his most recently deceased mentors good will by becoming a leader even if on the bench and by imparting whatever he can to the young core of this team. But in addition Curry should apologize for his lackadaisacl play on the pick and rolls. Rose should apologize for shooting the rock as if he has a shot etc etc.

Everyone has some blame here, the team wins and looses together.

Yet, despite my rant. I really would like to see these guys turn it around. I actually have grown to like these guys and would like them to succeed.

Marbury your legacy as a player and role model to those youngins you sell shoes to is on the line. STEP UP and be a leader. Step up and provide some guidance as your mentor did for you, even if it is off the bench.

DVJ

All you Kobe dreaming won’t be realized unless this team wins.

Do you think Kobe wants to go to a team he may perceive as a loosig team.

No!

Debate done!

Lets Go Knicks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Knicks fan and Lover for Live!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I aint giving up on the Orange and Blue!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

By Orange & Blue on Nov 18, 2007

Peaceman

I wrote MSG at the email address you linked us up to in the prior post.

Here is the content of my message.

“I am a die hard knicks fan who has followed the team since the late 80s.

I have been through good times and bad. I have seen the team near the cusps of a championship and endured the misery of the scot layden era.

With all that said. I love this core of young players that has come to be known as the New York Knicks and I would appreciate it that neither Knicks management or ownership give up on this years team. The regular season is still young. The team has been in the vast majority of the games it’s played and the most notable loss against the Nuggets was in the secon of a back to back and the 4th of a four game in five nights west coast trip in which the team the night before played a spirited double over time game in which they fell short of a victory in the face of questionable officiating.

Please understand that there are forces in this world who whish to play god with the fortunes and success of the New York Knicks and these forces will never be held accountable for their exagerrations, propoganda, hyperbole and instigation. Those forces are the the NY Main Stream Media.

These pundits would have the team w/o its current head coach by christmas, so that they can celebrate a persons misery come the holiday season. These miserable grinches would have this young team go through another convulsion another coaching change– its 4th in a four year stint– that will take the team even further from its stated goal of making the post season. These cowards in print and ink, assail miscontrue and misinterpret the statements from Management and Ownership. Their relationship to MSG and the Knicks is hostile and antagonistic. They care little for the fans who have endured a turnover in the teams potential and talent base that have resulted from the current GM’s excellent eye for talent. These ogres don’t care what happens b/c even if things change they will easily find more holes and reasons to lambast the Knicks. Make no mistake these are the same cowards who insisted on Patrick Ewings ingnominius ouster from the franchise only to later offer crocodile tears and half hearted apologies bemoaning the current state of affairs.

WIth all that said this team has a solid core of young and promising talent the team is exciting and going through some understandable growing pains. But despite that this fans love of the Knicks is still true and my hope for the teams future succes in the face of hatred and paranoia remains as strong as it ever has been.

Please don’t cow down to the cowardly yellow journalist who would deprive this team of a chance of redeeming is shaky beginning and redeeming the good work of its current head coach and general manager. Give the coach a chance to play through this season in order to see if he and the team can reach their stated goal.

Thank you,

___________________

aka Orange and Blue (from http://www.Knicksdefense.com)

By Orange & Blue on Nov 18, 2007

Write on Orange & Blue. Gotta love that passion. I support fully that this guy is backpeddling and trying to gain acceptance by the Defenders.
Anti- any room in the Dog house?

KFLL

By Steady on Nov 18, 2007

Peaceman,

I couldn’t have wrote that any better! That was some heartfelt writing, right there!!! I’m glad to have you on the Knicks Defense side and as a friend. And I’m glad to have all your guys as true supporters of each other while our team is in some sort of a funk. Thanks to some part as as the Refs seems to be on some sort of mission. I going to keep my eyes out on them, to see if their is some validity to what Modi mentioned.

Steady,

There’s always room—if not I make room! My up-dated list is going to be forth coming still. Then I’m going to e-mail these haters my blogsite name, Knicksdefense, and Modi’s, which leads to the rest of us Defenders websites,letting then know we not taking this crap without a fight.

Can I have that email address for MSG. Thanks

By Anti-NYSportsNews on Nov 18, 2007

Orange & Blue,

WriteOn as well, you are a true Knicks Defender!!!!

By Anti-NYSportsNews on Nov 18, 2007

Anti-
That was Orange & Blue with that passionate appeal in #2. Here’s the link Peaceman provided from the last Thread. Peaceman said to send mail to msgnetpr@thegarden.com, and “I highly suggest our role call do the same!”

KFLL

By Steady on Nov 18, 2007

I’m sorry Orange & Blue, I’m confused Peaceman didnt write you did.

I must mention your both write alike. Something I read by Peaceman was similar.

So whatever I wrote to Peaceman by mistake goes to Orange & Blue.

WriteOn ALL

By Anti-NYSportsNews on Nov 18, 2007

Yea,thanks Steady correction noted above.

By Anti-NYSportsNews on Nov 18, 2007

Peaceman’s letter was shared in the last thread Anti-. I just sent in my Just bloggin’.

KFLL

Off-the-subject–The J-E-T-S won. Guess they’re not tanking the season afterall.

By Steady on Nov 18, 2007

Google Alert - new york knicks Sun 11/18/2007 7:16 PM

Who’d be dumb enough to trade for Marbury?

NBA to help pick next Knicks coach

Denver Nuggets 115 - New York Knicks 83

Denver Embarrasses New York

NBA: Denver 115, New York 83

By Syd on Nov 18, 2007

IRATE THOMAS MAY HAVE SENT MARBURY HOME

http://www.nypost.com/seven/11192007/sports/knicks/go__stephon__689821.htm?page=2

Knicks players support Thomas despite controversy

http://www.newsday.com/sports/basketball/knicks/ny-spknix195467849nov19,0,6095020.story?track=rss

Could Colangelo rescue sad-sack Knicks?

http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071119/OPINION03/711190387/1127/rss13

Knicks Look Ahead to Long Season

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/19/sports/basketball/19knicks.html?_r=1&ex=1353214800&en=566c41f3a3491e26&ei=5088&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss&oref=slogin

Marbury’s stain just gets bigger

http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/basketball/bulls/cs-071118smithbrite,1,6836770.story?coll=cs-bulls-headlines

By Poppin Scoski on Nov 19, 2007

Good Morning…

What’s for breakfast?

http://www.ihop.com/

By Poppin Scoski on Nov 19, 2007

Poppin,

You made me hungery!

O&B
Excellent letter to MSG! I’m sure Steady has a heavy hitter over there too!
ROLL CALL for anyone one else who sent MSG a letter of support? We need you to report in!

Livesin Jersey, your MIA, but somehow I feel you have sent a Classic to MSG!
I sent a copy of what I wrote to Knicksdefense.
It may be working, as Isola’s article today has his tail between his legs as Thomas
takes court today for practice! Remember, like Bobby Knight said, Isola’s profession
is one step above prostitution! lol

One game at a time, as we should beat Golden State at home! LGK

By Peaceman on Nov 19, 2007

O & B:

Great letter. I will draft a similar e-mail to the address Peaceman provided in the next two days. KFL

By Post-up Prince on Nov 19, 2007

BLOGZILLA, KNICK-D,STARBURYFAN,

Thread looks like something straight-out of MSM. As a DEE-FENDER I look forward to reading about
the team, not something from a hack who has been anti-Zeke for last 3 years. If Zeke goes then
he goes, but will this blog fall into the trap of discussing Zeke’s future or will you focus on the
team.-Just my 2 cents.

The team has to play better DEE, and acquire a tougher mentality. Speculation about Steph
being a scape-goat, or has Isiah lost the team, has drawn attention away from entire team. The
REALITY is the team has played LOUSY. The players can vote to not play Steph, or decide
if they like Steph, but this does not NEGATE that the team has not played well.
Steph is not the reason Q’s shot is MIA. JChuck turnovers are not caused by Steph
Eddy’s lack of rebounding and D isn’t caused by Step. DLee’s play same thing.
CALVIN MURPHY can’t blame the wild shots and unnecessary dribbling on Steph. The SCHOLAR
can’t blame Steph for his shooting percentage, turnovers or poor DEE.
This has been a TOTAL TEAM EFFORT. The team can regroup for the next 4 games or go into the TOILET.
We will SEE.

@Steady, I believe that it is a PRIVILEDGE to have the “FANTASY LEAGUE CHAMPION” as a DEE-FENDER.
Where else can you blog and get a trade scenario BEFORE, DURING & AFTER a game. You can ACQUIRE
& TRADE the same player in 5 minutes. DVJ for GM.

Peace & Blessings
&

By STATESMAN on Nov 19, 2007

@ Statesman,
You read me too well I’m thinking… So it is, DVJ is our GM.

Note that noone is biting on this thread. Instead, (so far) the Defenders are telling JD to “stay the course”; “remember the vision”; and “keep the faith”.

Steady as IT goes.

KFLL

By Steady on Nov 19, 2007

Defenders

Good AM and once again I would like to give thanks to the Alpha and Omega for blessing me and mine to return home safely and to find ALL in order.

It warms my heart and uplifts my SPIRIT to see the FAMILY on this THREAD take a positive and constructive stand on behalf of OUR BELOVED NEW YORK KNICKS.

Kudos and Props to my MIAN MAN PEACEMAN for initiating the collective effort based on the cooperative principle. I am feeling you this morning PEACEMAN, and I AM VERY PROUD OF YOU. If you know my heart, you know I am not being condesending, but SMILING through and through because, like WS said, “To thine own self be true, and to no other be false.” Your leadership on this matter was required and you have stepped up to plate with an idea in mind. The DEFENDER FAMILY will meet you home plate to celebrate your Home Run…God Bless you Peaceman!

Statesman, the Wise One, you have hit it on the head, and you sounded trumpet, because there is no question, THIS TEAM HAS NOT PLAYED UP TO ITS CAPABILITIES AND EVERYONE HAS A STAKE IN THIS CURRENT SLIDE…the NYMSM can balme Zeke or Bury or whomever they so choose, but the knowledgable KNICK FAN knows this team has not LIVEd UP TO ITS CREED OR LEVEL OF GOD GIVEN TALENT…Well stated oh Wise one, well stated.

OB, Post-Up, Anti, BLOGZILLA/Knickdefense, and my kindred spirit Mr. Steady, thanks for holding DOWN the THREAD, staying true, for keping the FAITH, and putting that FAITH to action. This is how you move mountains and overcome circumstances and find that soul satisfaction that is so elusive to most, because they refuse to remain STEADY AS IT GOES…

Peaceman, I have a favor to ask, and I hope you will comply, but if not, I do understand the value of your time. I am headed to Southern Maryland to visit the sick and the affirmed. My MOM’s older Brother had a stroke and is currently in a nursing home and right next door in the hospital facility, I have another Cousin dying from Cancer. I will accompany my Mom and Aunt who are already here with me for the Holidays to visit the family members mentioned above, and I want to focus all of my strength, power, and Godly energy in that direction today. Peaceman, would you please be kind enough to write a short paragraph on my behalf to MSG, so I too can answer the call to action. Whatever you choose to do, I will still be grateful and supportive of your efforts, because we just get DOWN LIKE THAT…

I’ve got to BOUNCE Defenders and I’ll probably check back on the THREAD in the LATE PM…

Peace, Love, Longevity, and Prosperity is my Prayer for all Defenders and their Families!

Keep it POPPIN!

By cooleyhigh on Nov 19, 2007

I think the Knicks fortune will turn around this week. They don’t have a choice but to turn it around.

Like Rasheed Wallace, I will put an Asterisk on this Road Trip. Turmoil, lack of cohesion, Zach, Taz, etc. I believe they will come together even if they don’t like somebody.

There are too many snitches on this team. They should shut up and play.

Win tonight
LGK

By Jazz on Nov 19, 2007

Cooley
Consider it done! I would also suggest look up “AHCC” or also known as “Immpower” as an alternative
for your cousin on the WEB! That over the counter powder is one powerful holistic and natural treatment that restores
a Immunosurpressed body that has cancer to peak health! Check it out on the Web! It’s pure science how it works
and the studies have been constantly trying to be blocked by major drug company’s, all because there’s no
$$$$$$ in something you can’t patent!

By Peaceman on Nov 19, 2007

knicksdee…as an oft-accused IT fan, i feel compelled to respond to your accusation…of turning in my knicks card because -without apology- I would have to take a break if he were fired…

what do you think a new GM/coach will do upon the firing of IT?

because according to reports and fan opinions, they have very general expectations on the “Next GM”. I would like to know where do you think the next GM will take THIS TEAM.

By BARF on Nov 19, 2007

I don’t want Isiah fired, and I’m rooting for him as well as for this team he assembled. The Knicks are really not
that bad—they did catch some unfortunate bad breaks for them to get in the groove toward winning. Injuries,funeral leave,AWOL point guard,one big eye brow from Zeke looks like it needs shaving. Things like these are responsible for the Knicks inept start, not to mention watching the video tapes on “How to Be A Winning Team” from the likes of the Bulls, Nets, and Miami.

The game verses the Warriors like Peaceman stated should give us a win. A win is always nice. And a predictable Nets lost to Utah tonight is always welcomed.

I recommend for us Defenders not to do TOO MUCH reading the MSM, Knick’s NY Sports News writing. These guys don’t play fair, and a lot of things they say are lies and lack credibility; whatever happens happens as far as Isiah Thomas job status. But we are keeping hope alive.

Cooleyhigh,

I wish you the best and get well soon to you and your family.

By Anti-NYSN on Nov 19, 2007

I just read statesmans post and have to agree that it is a problem w/ the entire team. Nobody gets a pass !

I have a question for you all good defenders……….. WHY ???? Why has the whole team gone to crap at the same time ? Coaching ? Heart ? Skill ? It can’t be all the poison pill. What is the reason for this poor effort ?

By JohnQ on Nov 19, 2007

What up Defenders?
Been chillin’, taking on another bizarre begining to the season.
You know what!
The Knicks are not nearly as bad as the record shows.
My eyes don’t fool me, and what I saw was a 50 win team.
This is all a rough start.
Unfortunate situation with Zach.
Selfish attributes of Steph, the suppossed captain.
Poor handling of the situation by Zeke.
When things like that happen, the best of teams would reflect that attitude.
All is not lost, because I still see a good team within the muck.
What happened created chaos the begin the season, but a good string of wins would right the ship, and bring back some confidence to these players.
Stay steady Defenders and don’t start feeling sorry for yourselves.
Don’t let the MSM think they’ve won. They did win the fight, they’re in the lead, but the battle has just begun.
Stay “Steady”

By African on Nov 19, 2007

Knicksdefense:

I think you are misunderstanding me and perhaps other defenders. What I would like is for Isiah to have a fair opportunity to carry out this season and attempt a turn around. IMHO there is nothing to gain by chopping of the proverbial head of the basketball side of the organization so that the torso can move about like a chicken with it’s head cut off. It’s too early to assess what this team is or will become.

That said statesman is correct that there is plenty blame to go around. I said as much in my First post here and that is why I was hoping that the team gets together to air out their respective mea culpas and oaths to live up to their collective talent base.

I hope you understand my position Knicksdefense.

By Orange and Blue on Nov 19, 2007

I think things are getting real itchy for Zeke cuz he must know this is probably going to be his last stop in the NBA for a long while, if things don’t turn out successful here. I hope he will consider a resignation rather than being fired, if it comes to that (Dolan does seem very loyal, tho even he must have limits to how long he can fend off msn-inspired fan grief).

MODI’s right — there are reasons to be hopeful for a decent season (.500?), but when that turnaround is going to start, considering who’s up ahead, is a guess for a swami. I’m sure zeke’s got til at least xmas or so to show a righting of the ship.

If it doesn’t work out here, zeke should just leave the nba alone for a few years. Be an analyst. Mebbe he can get a deal later as GM of a small-market team starting from scratch with a reasonably patient fanbase (today’s version of minnesota?).

By Charles Follymacher on Nov 19, 2007

Defenders,

I guess the topic of the Day is Zeke. Will he be fired?

I hope not, give him a chance to work with this team he has put together.

It’s only 9 games and they are calling for his head.

He may not have done the right thing in the ABS trial, he is a coach,let him coach!

After the MESS LAYDEN MADE with the Knicks,AND NO ONE TALKS ABOUT HOW BAD THE TALENT WAS BEFORE ZEKE.

He needs more than 9 games,I think the whole season, then let’s judge.

4 Zeke

1)Put DLee in the starting line up,for more energy and the media loves him,can’t go wrong.

2)Take Collins out of the starting line up, he is not getting anything done. No more defense as promised.Use N8!!

3) keep the rotation to 8-9 guys that’s it. That’t 5 plus Balk,Steph,JJ and 1 more.

4) Give the rookie some minutes,let’s see what he can do.

Question: Why are all the replacements for Zeke,all white men???????

Just bloggin’…..but why?

By D L T Knicks on Nov 19, 2007

I am kinda surprised at the turn around of events. Most of us were praising IT before the season started and at the first bump on the road, we are joining the MSM in calling for IT’s head by Christmas!!! That is cold. INHO

Fact is we lost two games on this road trip that could easily have gone our way but for some questionable calls at the last minute. All this in the midst of Zach’s grandma and Steph’s stab in the back. I am prepared to wait longer than X’mas. When the Knicks go 2-20, then maybe I might conclude that the Knicks need a change. For now I wouldn’t give the NYPost and DailyNews by joining the chorus calling IT’s head.

This is what can happen. IT is axed for a more media-friendly guy. The guy comes in, maybe promote Herb to Head coach. The guy listen’s to the media type and decides to cut or trade Marbury, Zach, N8, Curry. What that means is we will have to start all over again. Maybe another 3 years of agony. Nah!! We can win with this team.

I laughed about the comment about Colangelo. The Phoenix Suns are not going to make the Western conf. finals this year. Nash is getting older and with it, their chance of being a championship team. Interestingly Phoenix also had marbury before. Toroto Raptors are a perimeter team without Bosh and I still maintain that their run last year was a fluke. There are a lot of teams in the NBA we can whup and I am sure we will.

My only problem - Too many snitches on the team. Any takers for Malik?

My 2 Cents

By Jazz on Nov 19, 2007

Games against

Cleveland
Miami
Orlando,
Clippers
Sacramento

Bad calls and lack of concentration, Turn-overs at the last minute.

We would be singing a different song today.

I still have hope

LGK

By Jazz on Nov 19, 2007

Like I said in #31 Colangelo ……….WHY?

By D L T Knicks on Nov 19, 2007

KnicksDefense,
This statement is similar to yours a few posts back!
Most of us were fans long before Thomas came, and most of will be fans after he’s gone!
This is the only City in the world where the first nine games of a 82 game
season brings on such crisis! Zeke is not going anywhere, and all of your emails to MSG will
help the Cause! Remember Curry stated if Zeke is not the Coach then he wants to be traded!
Dolan is more intelligent than MSM give him credit! If Zeke goes, so does this core that just took
4 years to rebuild! Zeke will have the year to prove worthy of remaining!

Just think about it for a moment! Who in the hell in their right mind would want to
come Coach in the Media Snake pit of the World, after seeing the treatment Zeke has
been through? Whats happening to the Bulls,Heat, Nets, Raptors???? They are off to
the same type start we are, but all those teams were predicted to do much better than us!
Aren’t we right where the MSM predicted? I can honestly say, the Knicks have yet to play ONE FULL
GOOD GAME! We are due! Let it be Know that Isola,The Grill, Lupica and those like them
do not own this team! Charles Dolan told Stern (FUCK YOU) in support of his Son Jimmy!
That “Fuck You” was also directed at the MSM! The More the MSM calls for Dolan to Act,
the more defiant he will be! Defenders, please keep those emails coming to MSG!
Let Dolan and Zeke know we are behind them! We can think for ourselfs! That alone
pisses Isola, Lupica, The Grill off so bad, they are embarassed that a Non-comerical
Knicks blog is kicking their Asses ten fold! It ain’t even close! There’s so much
traffic in here compared to their once powerful blog’s, Knicksdefense may have to
install Traffic lights!

By Peaceman on Nov 19, 2007

Tru da Jazz

I made the same comment a few days ago. We could be 7-2. The Knicks are not playing badly.

Just need to tighten the belt a little.

By D L T Knicks on Nov 19, 2007

DLT

9 games ? Hasn’t he had most of this club together for 91 games now ? How long does he get before we see more than moral victories ? They should be more in synch after a whole year under his tutilage don’t ya think ?

The replacements are all white because those are the proven guys that are available.

What a stupid thing to say. Not every issue is racial man. Don’t always bring it there.

Jazz… I agree that alot of our losses could have gone the other way if not for (insert excuse here). How long should we wait until we can stop making excuses and play ball ???

I don’t think Xmas is that far fetched as a good measuring stick. Thats another 15 games w/ the full squad.

All this said I really like IT, but if the club has stopped hearing him, we need a new voice. All this is very unfortunate. I wish our guys made the effort every night. I guess we need a taskmaster in the mold of Riley or Van Gundy to make these guys play hard every night ???

By JohnQ on Nov 19, 2007

John Q

These guys?? These guys will all be playing elsewhere if Zeke is replaced!
No one can Coach this team but Zeke! Yeah it may take a year to make all the trades
but if Zeke gets fired, you will see nothing but a Rucker game every night! Every player will try to
pad their stats for their next team/contract! You name the Coach that this group will play for
without civil disobedience, and I’ll give you all 6 numbers to the Mega Millions tomorrow!

By Peaceman on Nov 19, 2007

John Q

What makes u think the players have stopped listening to him? Give the guy the whole season and let’s see what he can do

Excuses? Why not? All the sportswriters claim the Nets and Heat are losing games because they are missing one player each. Why not us?

By Jazz on Nov 19, 2007

Peace,

So then you are telling me that this group is uncoachable. I’m saying this because I think Zeke IS the best guy to lead this team. They don’t put forth 100% effort for 48 minutes every night for him. If they love him so much as a coach and they want to win, why don’t they play harder for him ?

By JohnQ on Nov 19, 2007

Who designs better plays than the play ending regulation against Sacramento? Guys lined up at foul line, flashed towards perimeter and Curry flashed to the post. Great play call. POOR EXECUTION BY CURRY. Who else is going to get better execution? Who else is going to trade a bad contract and Frye for 18 points, 15 rebounds per night?

Who else is going to get their star player to obey his command to press the guard in the Miami game, only to see the star player leave the same guard for an open jumpshot?

Who else aptly defined this team when stating that the key to the team is not scoring, but tough defense?

IT’S NOT THE COACHING!!

Wake up! The critics have their own agenda!!

By HarleminMD on Nov 19, 2007

Jazz,

I think they stopped listening to him because they can’t follow his game plan for 48 minutes. I know he doesn’t approve of all the one on one play I still see every game. They forget to pass, don’t cover the perimeter, don’t rebound, etc. (obviously I’m talking about different players w/ different problems) Doesn’t IT go over these things in practice ??? If they were trully listening, the breakdowns wouldn’t reoccur every game.

excuses why not ???? Because we bash the media every day here and then we do exactly what they do in making excuses. I’m gonna borrow from Steady and say you need to lift that veil of Hypocrates for that statement. We are better than that and I hold the Defenders to a higher standard than the MSM.

By JohnQ on Nov 19, 2007

other than the smashing at denver, the knicks have played tight, competitive games. what about that means they have stopped responding to Zeke?

how many other teams in the NBA have a problem executing a game plan for 48 minutes?

how many of those teams deploy a core as young as the Knicks?

how many of the teams that are in the midst of “bad starts” have a core that is more experienced, have had the same coach (system) longer and have been playing together longer?

excuses are for players because they do the playing.
for bloggers? we have reasons to help our understanding when we do our analysis.

its a tough start to the season, for sure. if it wasn’t for the NYC media, a tough start is just a tough start. but in NYC, a tough start is a dead man’s last march.

funny how Zeke is coming off his best offseason in terms of acquisitions (Zach for Frye and Francis) yet he gets no support publicly.

By BARF on Nov 19, 2007

John Q,@ #37

1)When you bring in a major scorer like ZBo. You just can’t expect the puzzle to fall in place.The ZBo/EC combo needs time to jell.It’s that 2-3 turnovers that have lost winable games thus far.

2)It’s not stupid to ask a question. It’s stupid not to consider.There are MANY people to consider to replace Zeke.Just wondering why the short list. West is good, yes. Magic may work good as well.And Dumars,if he would consider leaving Detroit. Herb Williams would be a great coach and the players respect him.Willis Reed was also good in NJ. Just to mention a few names who have been forgotten.

By D L T Knicks on Nov 19, 2007

Starburyfan,KnickD,KNEE-DEEP,

I did not make myself clear, earlier. My questions was, will the DEE-FENDERS discuss the
team, and what’s happening on the floor, or discuss the Soap Opera created by MSM. KNEE-DEEP
we have heard Dolan is flying to Cali to fire Isiah, Steph & Zeke traded punches,
the ENTIRE TEAM, voted to SIT Marbury. KNEE-DEEP my question is will your blog stay in the MSM-SWAMP, or
will you as the leader rise above the ABS.

Regarding will DEE-FENDERS turn in their Knick card if Zeke is removed. I will continue to be a Knick fan and
a Zeke fan. If Zeke is owed over $20 mill, NOOONE SHOULD SHED TEARS FOR ZEKE. However I find it IRONIC
that you KNEE-DEEP who KEEPS A PERPETUAL HARD-ON FOR DLEE, would question someone’s loyalty to the
Knicks versus their loyalty to an individual. When the team lose, and Lee has a good game, you highlight LEE played well. When DLEE gets mauled(Boston-preseason,Haslem of Heat,Orlando), you question if DLEE is injured, or you
ignore DLEE being ABUSED. KNEE-DEEP, ask yourself if you are SUCKING LEE’s JOCK, or are you a Knicks’ fan.
Those in Glass Houses Shall Not THROW STONES

Regarding Mannix, please have your facts correct. This guy has attack Zeke & the Knicks for 2-years. If the
Knicks win 2 in a row he will give props, but never has he promoted the Knicks. The other writer PREDICTED the
Knicks in the play-off. KNEE-DEEP the MSM distort the facts, please do not imitate. It is important
that your information is CURRENT & CORRECT.

Peace & Blessings

By STATESMAN on Nov 19, 2007

JohnQ,
I don’t believe that the Defenders, in general, are lowering the standards for IT or saying that he is beyond reproach. I tend to see the majority of the commentary here indicating that it is TOO EARLY TO TELL. I only speak for Steady here but I read every post for my education.

In the line of HarleminMD’s statement I can add this thought. The journalist may have been doing a CON job when he made this statement but early on (while introducing himself to the bloggers who came to his site) he discussed the “dirty deeds” of the agents and coaches/GMs. The MSM know that they are used at times and that their power is in swaying opinion. We have tabloid journalists “en rage” here in the NYC. Plain and simple. Sometimes, an agent will “fund” a story. Look at the players that are featured during the draft or read the stories when a player is in a contract year. The MSM is a tool and it must be used for you or else it will be used against you for burial. Why is a large MSM pack in Chicago, Miami not hovering like vultures there? Because they went to the playoffs last year? Puh-leeez. It’s too early in the season, that’s why.

Oh, you want more proof–look at the fired ABS from the MSG. A nice portion of that windfall (if ever collected from an overturned appeal) will go to the local MSM for aiding and abetting a fired ABS from corporate America. The MSM tool was effectively used by the plaintiff ABS.

Now back to b-ball: The team needs to play better and we have to keep hope alive that they will. We have no control over who they will suit up or trade-in/-out. We can only hope to cheer them for Ws. All the other stuff is just MSM fodder and expressions of fanaticism.

KFLL

By Steady on Nov 19, 2007

HarleminMD

Said it best. Zeke is designing great plays that are not being excuted.When they are excuted there are big. Lee’s tip in with .02sec……Curry’s 3 @ Bucks last year(Zeke had him practice that shot,knowing someday he will need it,was on the Knicks review show). And Curry’s miss in Sac,all great plays by Zeke.

By D L T Knicks on Nov 19, 2007

HarleminMD #41 ..WOW …writeon buddy. Before long the little gimmes that we are missing now, will begin to fall…. and it’ll be a whole new ballgame.

By Syd on Nov 19, 2007

JohnQ,

We bash the media everyday because they have been impartial in their analysis and Agenda. Let me see the things that have been blamed on Isiah and thus the reasoning that he should be fired. Hiring Larry Brown, Dolan’s firing of Larry Brown, the coaching records of Don Chaney, Lenny Wilkens, and Larry Brown. Why the Knicks have not been to the playoffs even before IT got here, accusations of Sexual Harassment, Marbury being benched, numerous trades for Marbury, Stevie Francis, Rose, Eddy Curry, Vin Baker, Jerome James, Why the Knicks payroll was a mess before IT got here. Why did he draft Balkman While a few of these accusations are fair, the majority have been half-truths, fabrications and ridiculous assertions that insult our intelligence. That is why we bash the media.

Are we guilty of the same with our support for the current Knicks make-up with IT as the coach and president? Nope. Here is my reason. The guy coached one losing season. He was about 8 wins shy of a .500 season. He had a depleted roster. He lost about 4 key players at a very critical time and still did fair. I would give him another season before I decide whether he needs to stay but if the 9 games so far are to be the determining factor, then I would look at the specifics on why we lost those 7 games. Excuse me Lawrence Frank has had the big 3 Kidd, Carter, Jefferson for how many season’s now and when did they even win the East?

You claim the players have stopped listening to him because they can’t execute his game plan for 48 minutes. Tell me which team does that in this league. From a basket ball stand-point, some of the turnovers have been due to miscommunication. That develops with playing together for some time. Some have been due to Jamal’s palming violations. I would probably blame the coaches for that but is that enough to fire the coach? Absolutely not. Eddy Curry has shown some desire to play defense and rebound the ball but he needs to learn how to defend the pick and role and how to box out. It is a work in progress. Nate is making smarter decisions with the ball. I could go on and on. But basically an honest assessment does not justify axing the coaches.

My 2 Cents.

By Jazz on Nov 19, 2007

Interesting

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/basketball/nba/11/19/thomas.ap/index.html

By Jazz on Nov 19, 2007

Steady,

I agree that it is too soon to tell but it aint lookin’ good. I was responding to Jazz statement that it was too soon to tell by x mas.

I feel that the next 18 games before x-mas should be enough to see if they have something actually wrong w/ this team, the coach or a particular player. The team is whole and hopefully on the same page. We are coming home to MSG to reset. There should be no reason not to go 11-7 til christmas.

13-14 sounds about right by then and will save Zeke’s job. 7-20 by then should be the nail in the coffin. He’s a good coach but he’s running out of time. I’m personally rooting for him.

GO NY GO NY GO NY GO

By JohnQ on Nov 19, 2007

Defenders

love the lively convo today. Many great points and I feel that spirits are still up and hope is still in the air.

Knicksdefense

It would be nice that you do not fall into the Alan Con man trap by sweeping all the people here as being Isiah loyalist.

Let me repeat what I and many here have said before. Lets play out the season before we decide whether to ax Isiah.

If that is an Isiah loyalist, then I’m guilty. But to define a loyalist as someone who would like to give this coach one year to right the ship– that year being this full year– is misconstruing a call for patience as a call for over extended loyalty.

I will be a Knick fan even if Isiah goes. I will whish the man well b/c the has faced many arrows and has been asailed and badly portrayed by many in the MSM who distort his profesional career past his palying days.

If a new GM were to come in and turn the the around and make it a “winner” I would applaud that GM and he would have my support. The roster however it would end up being would have my support and patience.

But that does not mean I want this current team to fail and this current coach to go down so quickly in anonymity.

Knicks fan and lover for life means regardless of who plays or coaches. I just hope we don’t ever have a return to the dead end Layden years. And I hope on that point you will agree with me.

Best to you and please think twice before you misconstrue patience for loyalty and catch a net so wide that even your friends are caught in its grasps.

Peac Out!

By Orange & Blue on Nov 19, 2007

KNEE-DEEP,

MSM YOUR ASS. I thought that was reserved for DLEE, not MSM. Most rational fans and Dolan know 9-games are
not enough time to make a decision. Stay KNEE-DEEP in the SWAMP, it fits your personality.

Peace & Blessings

By STATESMAN on Nov 19, 2007

O & B

I am with you on this. If IT is cut tomorrow, I will still be a Knicks Fan but will his axing be a wise decision? I doubt it.

My 2 Cents!!!

LGK

By Jazz on Nov 19, 2007

Peaceman — I think there are LOTs of potential GMs and coaches who would willingly throw themselves into this “media snake pit,” as you put it. This is still MSG. It’s still the Knicks. It’s the best job in the business. Especially because a good basketball man would be smart enough to know that – despite public perception – this team already has a strong foundation of talent. It’s not very far away. Yet a new man would be credited with “saving the Knicks.” Who wouldn’t want that job?

Why do you assume “these guys will all be playing elsewhere if Zeke is replaced”? A new management team would be foolish to take this team apart. What they need to do is make the one or two right moves that will fill the holes in the roster. This team doesn’t need a great deal to rank among the elite. But they have to be the RIGHT moves. I can see a LOT of NBA veteran GMs and coaches lobbying hard for Isiah’s jobs.

I’m also curious why you think that “no one can coach this team but Zeke”? You suggest a coaching change would turn into every man for himself? I don’t know if you’re right. But I sure hope you’re wrong. It would be a pretty damning statement about the quality of athlete and the quality of man that Isiah has assembled here. These are professional athletes. Most, if not all of them will play for numerous other coaches before their careers are finished.

By Trane on Nov 19, 2007

I’ll second O&B,

I like IT(no homo),I think he did his best to bring talented players to this team. If it all works….we don’t know yet.
But if IT is gone today, you can be sure that on tomorrow that DAVID LOVES THOSE KNICKS.IT had a hard job to start.The Knicks were over the cap when he came and had no talented players…that was Layden doing.Even with Layden,I was a Knicks fan. When Layden drafted Fredric Weiss over RonRon, I still believed that the Knicks were doing the right,and that it was I who did not know better.

Point being. IT vs Knicks,…….. Knicks, no question. AND I want IT to finish this, I believe he can.I want him to prove them wrong.

By D L T Knicks on Nov 19, 2007

Trane,
Do you remember Herb’s short stint as head coach after Wilkins?? Do you rememeber the free for all
that happened every night with Marbury launching it from 4 foot beyond the trey line?
Crawford doing a W4th throw it against the Backboard and slam, even though we are down by 20?
These players are loyal to Thomas unless the Marbury incident really changed that!
Magic don’t want to Coach here! He was unsuccessful when he tried in LA! Who else could
command the respect of this team? Don’t say Kiki or I’ll throw up! Not one of these core players will want to play
here in this media Zoo if Zeke is fired! Whenever a new Coach comes in, you will always have at least half the
team loyal to the former Coach ( Larry Brown an Exception. ) It may be noted Trane, we’ve spit out Two HOF coach’s
you think we won’t do that to a third? It’s just the structure of this team! This team would have to be blown up!
It’s just business like anyother hostile take over! You fire people and bring your own in!

By Peaceman on Nov 19, 2007

Peace — Zeke definitely had the loyalty of the team last year. Whether he still has it or not remains to be seen. Yet, that’s where things could have changed. If he’s lost them, then I’m not convinced you’re right that they’d reject a new coach. Your point that they’ve chewed up and spat out two HOF coaches is a good one. And if they’re still loyal to Isiah, it certainly could happen again. (Then again, if they’re still loyal to Isiah, he’s got a better chance of getting them all on the same page again . . . at which point he could be sticking around a while longer.) But I still say they’re professionals. Whether or not this same basic team could rally behind a new coach would probably come down to the same question that hangs over Isiah at the moment: How quickly can they be successful? You’d be surprised how fast the team would support a new coach . . . if they’re winning twice as many games as the’re losing . . .

By Trane on Nov 19, 2007

DLT Knicks and Jazz

I appreciate the show of support.

We’ll see if the team can begin to climb out of the proverbial hole it digs itself into almost every early season.

Yo Blogzilla we need a ne post.

Hope you understood that my dissent was not meant to disrespect you. You know I’ve had your back on prior ocassions in the Alan Cohn KF days. I just wouldn’t want you to generalize. You ought to know that what draws us together on this splendid sight is our devotion to two things.

The NY Knicks

An our desire to see this team succeed.

The former will always be unconditionally, the latter depends on those who play and coach the game and no doubt that when those who do the playing and coaching are clearly shown to fall short of the tasks then we will join in speculating whether changes need to be made.

At the end of this season if there are no playoffs then Zeke may have to go. But untill let him and his players accept and undertake the arduous task of righting this ship!

See you boys tommorow.

Here’s to the weary and waylayed may they RISE UP AND RISE ABOVE!!!!!!!!!!

By Orange & Blue on Nov 19, 2007

Next time the Knicks play Orlando

they ought to pull a Bruce Bowen on the Magic outside shooters and have them roll their ankles

All’s fair in love in war.

By Sprial Questions Mark on Nov 19, 2007

Jazz,

You said “You claim the players have stopped listening to him because they can’t execute his game plan for 48 minutes.”

I didn’t say execute. That would be impossible and no coach expects that. I said 48 minutes of EFFORT. No passing the ball on the inbounds hand to hand. You learn that playing as a kid. No wide open 3s. DEEEE-FENSE !!!! Focus. All 48 minutes.

They lack focus. Who’s job is it to motivate them ? I think we all agree its not a matter of talent. Our players have talent. When properly motivted I think they can achieve much more. Zeke needs to get this team to focus or move on.

By JohnQ on Nov 19, 2007

D L T, It was Ed “the Saboteur” Tapscott who drafted Fredric Weiss over Ron Artest–he followed the ouster of Ernie Grunfeld. JVG won that corporate politrix battle between Coach and GM.

I support your formulation Peaceman about the loyalty factor and how players will be forgetting the team concept if the GM and coach are let go in the same season. GM coming in will say he wants his guys and guy who will “go to war” for him. Even if he says differently during the interview, he will be inclined to change people mid-stream. It is the nature of professional sports. Players perform for the guy who’s making their accountants count coins. Listen to JCraw. If the guy who brought them in leave, players will then be concerned about showing their net worth for their next work. It’s called self-preservation and only the home fans will blame them. Still, all this talk is too speculative and feeding fuelwood well into the MSM furnace trap. On this topic, the answer ought to be–we’ll cross that bridge if Dolan brings us to it.

@ Starburyfan/Knickdefense,
I can see where someone could read your broad stroke here about loyal IT vs. NYK (fan) and take issue with you. The reason I don’t take issue with you is because I know who I am here. I am Steady. You may want to look at the canvas here again and repaint that picture about IT fan versus NYK fan. I said it before,: some coach’s agent is “prolly rollin’” some articles about why IT should be fired. They have an agenda. They want another type of character to deal with at MSG. The MSM is hell bent on changing the media policy at MSG (and with the NYJ too). After those retreads mentioned over the weekend by the MSM, watch the MSM throw a name like Mike “the Czar” Frattelo. All these unemployed guys are angling for jobs through the MSM. They’re submitting job applications where there’s no announced vacancy.

We had one isolated individual go as far off the side of his neck (as one can go) to say that Glen Grunwald is the one who did the deal with Portland because no GMs likes to do business with IT. COULD YOU BELIEVE THAT MSM ABS? How many teams are there in the NBA? How many of their GMs did this basketball genius poll before typing that assertion. Writing that misleading and inflamatory bunk should be a fineable offense. Who’s going to call to judgement this DANGEROUS shaper of the public sentiment? DEFENDERS to the rescue. We read here and we think and therefore we are Defenders. That’s why we blog! Just bloggin’.

KFLL

By Steady on Nov 19, 2007

Ya’ll may remember him as Frederic Weiss or the French Swiss Cheese who VC dunked over (which was a foul BTW). Typo. I liked the “prolly” from when Chuck FM and HarleminMD used it.

This thread has gone to “a whole nother level”. As JohnQ suggested, I’m moving on too.

KFLL

By Steady on Nov 19, 2007

I’ve watched Isola on NBA-TV give his assessment on the Memphis Grizzlies.Get this.He says they should build their team around R.Gay and trade Gasol??? Do the words IMBECILLE,MORON,JERKOFF,HALFWIT mean anything here!!!!He should be fired from both of HIS JOBS!!!!!!!!!!!! He lost all credibility from this point on.He should do the honorable thing.Commit Hari Kiri!!!!!!!!!!How can anyone with any basketball knowledge take this douchebag seriously????Something needs to be done about him in all seriousness!!!!

By George M. on Nov 20, 2007