So this must be what they mean by the team game. First let me state for the record that Frank Isola hates no one in the Knicks organization–with the exception maybe being Jim Dolan–more than he hates Stephon Marbury. So when the tabloid newspaper locals know as the NY Daily News breaks a story that Isiah and Dolan are talking about buying Stephon Marbury out, I take such news with a grain of salt.
Had Mark Berman, Howard Beck, or Alan Hahn been in on this story, it might have more weight to it. I don’t think this is even the first time Frank Isola has taken a crack at this story since Marbury came over from Phoenix. “A high ranking team official,” is the source. Now this is a journalist’s choice of words, note the vagueness of the wording, which team is it again that gave you this info? Seems all to easy not to accept responsibility for the story if Knicks officials later announce the rumors are false.
That is not to say there isn’t maybe some truth to the rumor Frank has just created. The knicks have bought out many players since the Ewing trade. But to think that the day has come in the Knicks organization when Jerome James is too good to be bought out, yet a fully capable starting point guard on most NBA teams isn’t worth keeping this early in the season seems to resonate with me that Isiah must be looking for another scapegoat. It is just way too convenient to blame each of the three losses in the first five games on one player, the point guard, but if that is what’s happening, so be it. Does that mean Larry Brown should have stayed then, Isiah? Should we have even kept Lenny Wilkins for that matter?
Isola writes that Stephon might not even get to play much in the west coast trip. Does that line up with Isiah’s recent quote, “this year, only the best players play”? The same quote Isiah recently clarified was not directed toward Stephon Marbury?
This is just the beginning of the hoopla at the Garden. By the time the team comes back from their 4-game road trip, who knows what will be on the minds of Knicks fans everywhere? It could be Zach Randolph, Stephon Marbury, Nate Robinson, Quentin Richardson, Isiah Thomas, there are just so many question marks as these Knicks head out west.
Isn’t Nate Robinson hurting right now by the way? Does it make much sense for the team to buy out Stephon at this time? Does Isiah have that much confidence in Mardy Collins right now? Would Jamal Crawford be pushed to the one now that he’s 15 lbs slower than he was last season?
Seems Frank has opened up the wrong can of worms and may just want another chance at using the term “team titanic” in describing the Knicks.
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O&B, I’ll definitely be watching tonight’s game. Hopefully someone will be around to share in tonights excitement. If its a blow out, I will abandon your asses faster then Stephon did when he found out he’d be JCraw’s understudy.
Nate is supposed to be playing. He told one of our local hacks that his hammy was fine.
Wilson Chandler is still on the inactive list right?
ISIAH
PLEASE OH PLEASE don’t let Malik play too much tonight. While I have no doubt that he is a scholar and an eloquent influence on the bench, his obsession with playing outside of his skill-set on offense bothers me.
ISIAH
While I have your attention…whats the word with Artest?
LOL @ #79 BARF… wow, I step out for a couple hours and bedlam breaks out. Well, zeke has been saying this year only the best players will play. He wasn’t just talkin, apparently. Might be a blip, might be a trend, but Spurs last year had manu coming off the bench and this year Dallas is shifting Jason Terry to 6th man role, too (to match?). Those guys are still getting major minutes. If teams are going with a rotation that includes a supersub to captain the second unit, I don’t see why Marbury couldn’t accept that role esp at this stage of his career (two years from Italian league). Is he too old skool to accept with the new moves?
Ok, so am I to take from this that Isola’s scoops arre halfway reliable if not his usual negaholic rhetoric? Or do we say even a broken watch is right twice a day?
Jazz @ #100 you beat me to it!
BARF
Here is your Artest trade the simple way
oh, and don’t think that I didnt see you bitches mocking my ass about malik this weekend.
i know his flaws as a player…but ya’ll like to pretend like he has no value. some of you call him garbage. while his play on the court falls into that distinction sometimes (and only on the offensive end because he thinks he has game on that end), off the court the guy is great. while i know ya’ll scoff and point your noises up on that…it still is a valuable asset on a team of men. i wouldn’t put him down on a fantasy team but i’d put him down on a young team with a lack of veteran talent such as this one.
thanks fellas…you know i’m here for ya’ll…i’ve just been so down after those last 2 games, i needed a knicks rest.
dlt, i was pushing that trade all off season. people shut me down cuz they couldnt see parting with dlee.
i stand by it if it happens, but now, i dont think it’ll happen. the leverage is gone, the momentum has shifted.
i guess we have to start talking about possible deals for stephon…except how can you guess that?
steve francis was one thing. but he was coupled with a youngster of ours. if zeke’s going to get anything out of stephon, stephon’s going to have to lay by the rules and lay low like steve francis did. steve francis wasn’t on the front page of the paper in the offseason on some dumb shit and how many portland’s are out there with a spare 20-10 guy on the roster.
I think Chandler and Morris both have a chance to get some burn tonight.
This is weird to me. We all had to know that Marbury was going to get off to a slow start this season – he spent the whole offseason selling sneakers, not in the gym. Still, we also know what he can do when he gets into mid-season shape… he won quite a few games last season with his play. So why buy him out? Maybe this is all a ploy to spark a fire under him?
Wow, what a day to comeback, and I’m introduced to the departure of Marbury as Starter,and him possibly going AWOL.
I’m back guys, temporarily, though. No free internet access from my neighbor’s wireless pickup; my service is expected Wednesday. Right now I’m at the Library with two cemented lions in the front chilling, reading your guy previous posters—a lotta reading! I’d have to save those prior pages and read later.
But this one, what a revelation. No more Marbury?!?
I think this ism Isiah’s way of lighting fire to Marbury—to get a favorable response in the long run. Like Marbury getting his starting position back. Marbury and Crawford I admit have been playing lousy. Curry too. That rebounding performance against Orlando was not a pleaser to us Defenders eyes. Now Dwight Howard is a beasts. I feel sorry for Curry, but if he wants to be an All-Star player–he have to want more it more than I want it for him. Meaning, he has to step up his game, because I’m not losing my credibility because of him. Crawford, too.
On Crawford though, I have to mention that all those carries he was called for was not called when he lighted up Miami for those 52 points. That’s Crawford game, that’s all I’m saying. But if has to adjust—then for him to adjust.
What way to start this season for us Defenders.
WriteOn ALL!!!
Giving Up On Marbury Would Be A Mistake
Authored by Christopher Reina – 13th November, 2007 – 2:34 pm
Tuesday’s New York Daily News, Frank Isola reported Stephon Marbury’s tenure with the Knicks may soon be ending, or at the very least evolve into a reduced role. He also was missing from Tuesday’s practice and Isiah Thomas announced that Mardy Collins would be taking his slot in the starting lineup against Phoenix.
Marbury’s turnover in the closing seconds of Sunday’s loss to Miami while the Knicks held a one-point lead was ubiquitously costly.
His AST/TO ratio (2.83) is 24th in the NBA, but is still better than Deron Williams, Baron Davis, Tony Parker, Steve Nash, Raymond Felton, Jameer Nelson, Kirk Hinrich and is more than a point better than Jamal Crawford.
Marbury has had slow starts in the past and his trade value is nil, so to even consider a buyout would be an absurd proposition. Starbury may be dead, but Marbury certainly still is very useful. Because of the way the Knicks are built offensively, a Marbury that realizes his limitations may even be preferred to the Jersey Starbury of old where he could penetrate at will and elevate to the hoop and finish.
During the Larry Brown season, Marbury struggled terribly in November and December, trying to make sense of what was expected of him. It came to a head when he went 0-for-7 in a December 28th loss at Orlando. But the Knicks’ started the New Year with a 140-133 victory in triple-overtime against the Suns in which Marbury scored 32 points and they went on to win five more games in a row.
A Saturday loss to Toronto was following by a MLK day loss to Minnesota at home in which Marbury jammed his shoulder on a pick by Wally Szczerbiak and the season was lost.
Last season, Marbury averaged 10.1 points and 4.5 assists per game in November, but he recovered and finished well, averaging 23.1 points and 5.7 assists in 41 minutes per game in 14 March games. In wins, Marbury averaged 18.3 points (shooting 45.7% from the floor and 41% from three), while dishing out 6.4 assists. In the losses he averaged 15 points (38.5% FG/31% three-point) with 4.8 assists.
Marbury then went on to have a tumultuous summer where he exhibited bizarre behavior, suggested playing in Italy when his contract is up in 2009 and also embarrassingly testified in the ABS/MSG civil suit.
More than being completely shot (see Steve Francis), at his age and physical condition, Marbury only seems to have his legs once every other game or so. He averaged 21.1 points and 7.2 assists per game last season when coming off three or more days rest.
This fact leads to the part of Isola’s report in which he suggested Marbury’s minutes might be greatly reduced, a fact of aging in the NBA which he wants no part of.
His presence, along with Eddy Curry, Zach Randolph and Quentin Richardson gives the Knicks one of the most un-athletic, lead-footed starting fives in the NBA.
I would bring Richardson off the bench (injured or not) and start Renaldo Balkman at the three indefinitely (you still have the off-the-bench jump-start factor from David Lee) because the alternative (benching Marbury) would mean either sliding Jamal Crawford over to the one or mean starting Mardy Collins.
(The Marbury/Crawford/Balkman/Randolph/Curry rotation has a +6 in their limited time together.)
Collins, who has been all but forgotten by Isiah Thomas because of a heel injury, is an upgrade athletically and a big upgrade defensively, but is still a developing shooter and opposing point guards would be able to collapse onto Randolph and Curry even more aggressively than they do with Marbury on the floor. Marbury’s three-point shot (.444 for the season) still needs to be respected.
Last April, Collins averaged 44.1 minutes per game and responded by averaging 14.8 ppg/6.7 rpg/5.8 apg/2 spg, making him an effective player in multiple facets of the game, but he shot 39% from the floor, 31% from three-point territory and 66% from the line.
Thomas should give Collins more floor time (which he did on Sunday), both to develop the second-year guard and also to rest Marbury. The potentiality of Marbury’s perimeter shot (which is now the most valuable aspect of his game and what the Knicks need the most due to Randolph and Curry in the block) and his reliability handling the ball (Sunday’s game excluded) makes him clearly the preferred option.
WONDERFUL
Barf
Again, I don’t see any team taking that contract of Steph(42 mill). We would have to sweeten the package a lot to get some team interested. But, I think Sac will still want DLee in an Artest trade.
More info on the one who has went AWOL.
1. The Knicks board the plane for Phoenix
2. While on the plane Isiah informs Steph tha Mardy will be taking his spot.
3. An argument takes place where Marbury threatens to air Isiah’s dirty laundry.
4. A fight breaks out
5. The Knicks land in Phoenix
6. Steph proceeds to go AWOL
7. Malik is quoted as saying “I’m tired of baby sitting this team.
While I am not Frank Isola my information is credible from a Knicks insider on the realgm boards. If this is true then I think Marbury’s time in Ny is ending fairly soon.
Holy shit booman…are you serious?
BARF,
#105–LMAO
good stuff boomann!lol
I’m as serious as a heart attack on fat people.
#1 KNICKSDEFENSSE IN KNICKS COMMENTARY AND REPORTING
#1 KNICKSDEFENSE IN KNICKS COMMENTARY AND REPORTING
I could be favor of the benching of Marbury by IT, but why on the game against the Suns—knowing Marbury got traded
from there to here. Nash possibly gloating?
Is it kind of doubly embarrassing for Marbury to play his 1st benched game against the Suns?
BARF
“I’ll definitely be watching tonight’s game. Hopefully someone will be around to share in tonights excitement. If its a blow out, I will abandon your asses faster then Stephon did when he found out he’d be JCraw’s understudy.”
You’re too funny dude!
So your just like Starbury abandon the team when its down me first HA!
Booman where do you get this info if you dont mind me asking?
booman, that’s some heavy stuff to drop like that. Any corroboration to this info at all? Damn, if that’s some made-up sh!t like my little convo crack earlier, that’s some foul sh!t to spread it without it’s proper humorous context.
If its true…I told you ALL we are 2 trades away. I said one was for Artest and the other was for a new PG. A pure PG. We don’t need one desperately becuz we have Nate and Mardy manning the postition but we need one in order to be backed up properly.
“Again, I don’t see any team taking that contract of Steph(42 mill). We would have to sweeten the package a lot to get some team interested. But, I think Sac will still want DLee in an Artest trade”-dlt
david, thing is, i dont see it happening NOW. If all this garbage about Steph is true, he’s the next to go and he is not going to replace Artest in Sac. You need someone desperate…like maybe…LAC.
They recently picked up Udrih, who is getting some PT…but I doubt Mike Dunleavy would want to coach him. Maybe Don Nelson would want to take on Stephon for 2 years. Maybe Atlanta wouldn’t mind using up a chunk of cap space on him…Miami?
Thing is, if you want to get the highest value out of a positional player, you trade for another position. As a rule, you won’t get as much value if you trade position for the same position. Unless, you’re trading character/leadership issues. In which case, you’re trading a problem for another problem.
@BARF
Maybe Atlanta,Miami…..but how many players would we have to take to equal 19mil, it will be a monster trade involving 4-6 players at least. An Atlanta Trade
Suns guard Raja Bell said he would sit out tonight’s home game against New York because of the right ankle he sprained Friday in Miami.
http://www.azcentral.com/sports/suns/articles/1113bellout.html
Realgm.com
They have all the latest gossip
If Malik is tired babysitting this team, i’m sure he can put his “chair pulling” skills to use as a host at an upscale restaurant somewhere after we dump his ass.
And if Steph DID threaten to air Zeke’s dirty laundry, then Marbury needs to gear up ‘cuz: 1) Zeke knows Steph is crazy enough to do it, tomorrow…and 2) Zeke might fulfill Mark’s wet dreams and go all gangsta on Steph, make the problem “go away” street-style.
I’ll be real excited to see some energy and passion and DEFENSE to start games with, though.
i like Steph and i hope this is overblown, and that he can respond appropriately like he did during Larry Brown’s tenure (prior to the “WE GOT BEEF!” pick from White Boy Wally Z that is).
nah, dlt. Atlanta has cap space and has been trying to pick up free agents for three offseasons.
we arent getting talent back for stephon. maybe a pick or two and a swing player that we wont need or use. The move to Atlanta would only be to satisfy their roster with a PG of Stephon’s pedigree. Thing is, what Atlanta wants to do is push the ball and what Steph wants to do is hold it.
Miami…JWill is what you’re getting in Steph, basically.
I dont know of a deal that can be made. Not now. As the season wears on, who knows? I’m sure Isiah will get the most he probably can. He has a way of getting the most out of a deal, be it an extra draft pick or someone with a shorter contract. I’m stumped though.
LAC, maybe. They’ve got some dudes they’d like to move but no one we NEED. If Steph goes, it may have to be a blockbuster, multi-team trade.
If not, Isiah’s screwed.
Marbury might be in LA where he has a summer home. Would he dare acrue the hefty fines levied against players who miss games?
STEPHON MARBURY SAYS HE GOT OK TO LEAVE
By MARC BERMAN
November 13, 2007 — Knicks point guard Stephon Marbury contacted The Post late this afternoon and in two text messages said he got permission from Isiah Thomas to leave the team in Phoenix this morning.
Marbury had bolted in a huff, flying for home amid an apparent feud with Thomas over his starting role, leaving his future as a Knick in serious doubt.
Marbury landed in New York about 4 p.m. and said in the message to The Post, “I have one thing to say, and that’s I got permission to leave. I would never leave my team on my own. What I?m telling you is that I got permission to leave from Isiah. He said I could go home. God bless. Peace be with you.”
Marbury added he was not expecting to join the team in Los Angeles tomorrow night.
“No, I’m not coming to LA as of now,” he said.
After Marbury missed the morning shootaround, Thomas was vague about the mysterious disappearance, the coach claiming he wasn’t sure if Marbury skipped town, but a source confirmed he had.
“This is an in-house matter,” Thomas said. “He’s not here at shootaround. We hope he’s at the game. If not, make no mistake about it, we do want him as a member of this basketball team. He is welcome back, and we want him as a member of this team.”
Marbury’s abrupt departure could lead to the end of his Knicks career. He told The Post over the summer he planned to play in Italy in two years when his contract expires. He has two years and $42 million left on his pact, and the Knicks may feel it’s now time for a buyout.
If Marbury is correct that he had permission to return to New York, it is unlikely Thomas would suspend him for fine him.
Thomas and Marbury spoke Monday about his role on the team and Thomas was set to reduce Marbury’s minutes, and potentially bring him off the bench tonight, because of his lax defense.
“We need leadership in the organization and he’s capable of doing that, and we want him back,” Thomas said.
Marbury, who is off to a poor start on both ends of the court, is coming off a wild summer. He appeared to defend Michael Vick and dogfighting, and was a key witness in the Anucha Browne Sanders sexual harassment trial, when he admitted to having had sex in a truck with a Knicks intern.
Thomas said this morning he and Marbury also went through a spat last November after which they “kissed and made up.”
Marbury has told confidants he feels he’s best playing 40 minutes a night and would struggle in a non-starting role because he’s never done it before. The 30-year-old Brooklyn native has averaged 19.8 points per game in a 14-year career, the past five seasons with the Knicks.
He’s averaging 15.2 points, which would be a career low, for the Knicks this season in their 2-3 start.
I guess Marc Berman said he got a text from Steph that he has permission to return to NY and won’t be in LA either.
i like the idea of Steph in Nellie-Land….he & Baron could simply alternate starting while the other one rests up. =)
Forget a positive deal for Steph, Isiah will have to revert to his earlier type trades where he picks up a few longer contracts in order to get a player or pick he likes.
How does Steph/DLee/1st for KThomas/Abdur-Rahim/Artest grab ya? =(
No, we just gotta all calm down, deflate the egos and see what happens. If Mardy comes in and shoots 30% in the next 5 games, then some of this stuff starts to sound crazy, no?
i wonder what Steve Francis thinks of all this? =)
@BARF
This the best I could do with A Clipper Trade and I don’t like it.
BARF
Here is your SAC trade . Too many power forwards, not good
dlt, if thats the best you could do with LAC, then forget it. the contract kills it.
SAC trade sucks too.
Looks like Marbury is stuck with us unless he wants to give a discount on the buyout
BARF
I agree, there’s no good trades out there for Steph, TOO MUCH MONEY for someone who can’t play defense. Kobe makes the around the same, but he IS Kobe.
BARF – Steph isn’t getting paid again (not anywhere close) so HELL NO is he taking a discount. If Stevie Franchise got 95 cents on the dollar to walk away, Steph will get something very similar.
His contract could be useful though, provided we’re willing to eat some salary long term in order to get a pick, or perhaps a useful, cheap young player bundled with some VERY bad contracts (hence my Sacto idea).
i think Steph stays, sits and stews. Who knows, history is replete with stories of strange redemption….
the reason i think the sac trade is not a good one is cuz, like you, i think steph stays.
after to the 6 o clock steven a smith report, whether or not stephon got permission to leave, the fact is, he left the team.
the responsibility falls squarely on his shoulders.
Somebody work on a trade with Atlanta where we can land Smith and Joe Johnson.
Anti…
Joe Johnson is a 2 guard in the league of Wade for sure.
That guy has all around game and I think Phoenix was dumb to move him.
Sorry, Phoenix didn’t move him. They let him walk in free agency.
Either way it was dumb.
Well if he does not show up for work,he should not get paid.
@DVJ
An Atlanta trade you wish for
ESPN’s Ric B. says the Marbury thing is just a distraction to hide they(the Knicks) are a very bad team with a large payroll
DLT, we’d need to throw in evenly-spaced first round unprotected picks until the end of Jeb Bush’s second Presidential term for ATL to make that deal. Even if their GM is a moron. =)
from ESPN.Com Insider Chris Sheridan:
Maybe the Stephon Marbury-Isiah Thomas feud blows over after a few hours, or maybe after a few days.
But maybe it doesn’t.
In that case, the question for the New York Knicks is: Can we trade him?
Stephon Marbury
Mary Altaffer/AP Photo
Marbury’s shoes may be a big hit on the market, but is he?
The common belief is that Marbury’s contract, which pays him $19.2 million this season and a guaranteed $21.1 million next season, makes him untradeable. But there is another way to look at it, and from a certain perspective the thing that makes Marbury so unattractive is the very same factor that makes him attractive — his contract.
Here’s why:
If you are the owner or the general manager of a team looking to rebuild, one of the best assets you can have is a contract worth $21.1 million coming off your salary cap in the summer of 2009 when there will be a bumper crop of free agents that could include many of the players from the 2004 draft class who did not agree to contract extensions prior to the Oct. 31 deadline, including Andre Iguodala, Emeka Okafor, Luol Deng and Ben Gordon.
And we would be remiss if we didn’t mention the fact that Kobe Bryant also has the right to opt out of his contract in the summer of 2009 and become an unrestricted free agent — as do Jermaine O’Neal, Richard Hamilton and Al Harrington.
So, in theory, it would come down to a question of whether a team could suffer through two years of paying Stephon Marbury (or buying him out) in order to have financial freedom 20 months down the road.
And don’t forget, teams that have cap space in the summer of 2009 can find ways to maintain that space for the summer of 2010, when LeBron James and Dwyane Wade both become unrestricted.
So, you see, Marbury actually does have some value, and there are even a couple of instances where he might even be able to help currently contending teams looking to shed bad contracts.
With that premise in mind, here are four trades that work under the salary cap rules and would make differing degrees of sense for all teams involved (keep in mind that we’re operating under the assumption that the Knicks would have to be 100 percent committed to getting rid of Marbury in order for them to stomach these deals):
Trade No. 1
Marbury, Renaldo Balkman and Fred Jones to Cleveland for Larry Hughes, Anderson Varejao and Damon Jones
The Knicks gain some perimeter defense and add a frontcourt player who can actually play a little defense. The Cavs get a true point guard along with an energy forward, Balkman, to replace Varejao, and they get rid of their $13.65 million obligation to Hughes for the 2009-10 season, allowing them to become major players in free agency the summer before James’ contract expires.
Trade No. 2
Marbury, Balkman and Randolph Morris to Sacramento for Ron Artest, Kenny Thomas and Shareef Abdur-Rahim
Knicks fans will be wondering why Mike Bibby isn’t in this deal, and the answer is this: If and when the Kings trade Bibby, they’ll want a heck of a lot more long-term value than an expiring contract. This deal makes sense for Sacramento because it gets them out from under the $17.3 million they owe Thomas for ’08-09 and ’09-10 and the $12.8 million they owe Abdur-Rahim over those same two seasons. The Knicks like it because they get Artest without having to surrender David Lee.
Trade No. 3
Marbury, Jared Jeffries, Morris and Mardy Collins to Denver for Kenyon Martin, J.R. Smith, Eduardo Najera and Linas Kleiza
Again, you have to look at the attraction to the Nuggets of being able to get rid of Martin’s contract, which pays him $59 million over this season and the next three, while also being able to pair Marbury in the backcourt with Allen Iverson. Smith and Kleiza are both better 3-point shooters than anyone the Knicks have now, and Najera could be subsequently dealt for a serviceable point guard.
Trade No. 4
Marbury, Morris and Jones to Minnesota for Marko Jaric, Theo Ratliff and Mark Madsen
This is about the stupidest trade the Knicks could possibly make, so therefore (based upon their ownership’s track record) we cannot unilaterally discount it as a possibility. The Wolves would be ecstatic to get out from under their contract with Jaric, which pays him $6.6 million next season, $7.1 million in ’09-10 and $7.6 million in ’10-11. They’d also shed the $7.7 million they owe Madsen for the rest of this season and the next two.
Paul
If I was a GM, there is NO WAY I would trade for Steph THIS YEAR. Next year he has an expiring(21mill) contract. Then the phones will ring….and ring…and ring.
So maybe dismissing a Mardy / N8 / Balkman / Lee / Zach unit is premature.
OK, the shooting skills would be in the gutter. Nate & Zach would obviously have the green light to run their own 1-on-2 iso’s all night long, which they’d probably love.
But teams would really need to commit to controlling their defensive boards, which would limit the transition game. Plus, as teams collapsed on Zach and doubled Nate on dribble penetration, we’d essentially be seeing a lot of cutting and passing into congested zone defenses, which would create foul trouble for both sides.
If you approach the situation from the stance that we’re deeper than most teams, could this be a tactical ploy that makes sense, to draw teams into a half-court brawl-fest?
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